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Released: November 8, 2012
1
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
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FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION
+ + + + +
CONSUMER ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING
+ + + + +
FRIDAY,
JUNE 15, 2012
+ + + + +
The Advisory Committee met in the
Commission Meeting room, 445 12th Street, S.W.,
Washington, D.C., at 9:00 a.m., Debra Berlyn,
CAC Chairperson, presiding.
PRESENT:
DEBRA BERLYN, Chairperson
CHARLIE ACQUARD, National Association of
State Utility Consumer Advocates
CHRIS BAKER, AARP
ED BARTHOLME, Call for Action
ANN BOBECK, National Association of
Broadcasters
RICK CHESSEN, National Cable and
Telecommunications Association
MARY CRESPY, Verizon Communications, Inc.
MARK DeFALCO, Appalachian Regional Commission
CECILIA GARCIA, Benton Foundation
LISE HAMLIN, Hearing Loss Association of
America
MITSUKO HERRERA, Montgomery County, MD,
Office of Cable & Broadband Services
JULIE KEARNEY, Consumer Electronics Assn.
REBECCA LADEW, Speech Communication
Assistance by Telephone, Inc.
FERNANDO R. LAGUARDA, Time Warner Cable

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2
LUISA LANCETTI, T-Mobile USA, Inc.
IRENE E. LEECH, Consumer Federation of
America
CLAYTON LEWIS, Coleman Institute for
Cognitive Disabilities
MIA MARTINEZ, National Asian American
Coalition
KEN McELDOWNEY, Consumer Action
ART NEILL, Utility Consumer's Action
Network
STEPHEN POCIASK, American Consumer
Institute
STEPHANIE PODEY, National Cable and
Telecommunication Association
PAUL SCHROEDER, American Foundation for
the Blind
CLAUDE STOUT, Deaf and Hard of Hearing
Consumer Advocacy Network
BARRY UMANSKY, Digital Policy Institute
DOROTHY WALT, Helen Keller National
Center for Deaf-Blind Youth & Adults
OLIVIA WEIN, National Consumer Law Center
ALSO PRESENT:
AJIT PAI, FCC Commissioner
MIGNON CLYBURN, FCC Commissioner
JESSICA ROSENWORCEL, FCC Commissioner
ROBERT ALDERFER, Incentive Auctions Team,
Wireless Telecommunications Bureau
JAMES BIRD, Senior Attorney, Head of
Transaction Team, Office of General
Counsel
SHARON BOWERS, Chief Consumer Complaints and
Inquiries Division, CGB
DEBORAH BRODERSON, Legal Advisor, CGB
MICHAEL CAROWITZ, Acting Chief of Staff, CGB
ELIZABETH CROCKER, Executive Director,
Foundation for Rural Services
THOMAS KOUTSKY, Chief Policy Counsel,
Connected Nation
SCOTT MARSHALL, FCC
KRIS MONTEITH, Acting Bureau Chief, FCC
MARK STONE, Deputy Bureau Chief, CGB
KAREN PELTZ STRAUSS, Deputy Bureau Chief, CGB

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3
T-A-B-L-E O-F C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S
WELCOME/CALL TO ORDER:
Debra Berlyn, Chairperson ............ 5
INTRODUCTIONS: ............................. 6
NEXT MEETING DATE IN OCTOBER: ............. 11
BUREAU UPDATE:
Kris Monteith, Acting Bureau Chief .. 13
CRAMMING AND PSAP:
Mark Stone, Deputy Bureau Chief ..... 18
DISABILITY ISSUES:
Karen Peltz Strauss, D. Bur. Chief .. 23
CONSUMER OUTREACH:
Roger Goldblatt, CBG ................ 32
Michael Carowitz, Act. Chief Staff .. 38
QUESTIONS/DISCUSSION: ..................... 39
REMARKS BY COMMISSIONER J. ROSENWORCEL: ... 46
Questions/Comments: ....................... 49
FCC INTERGOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS COMMITTEE:
Debra Berlyn, Chairperson ........... 53
Joyce Dickerson, SC Councilwoman .... 56
Marlin Blizinsky, V. Chair ........ 61
Tom Sloan, Representative KS ........ 62
Ken Fellman, attorney ............... 64
Radhika Karmarkar, NYC .............. 64
CONSUMER COMPLAINT REFORM:
Deborah Broderson, CGB ........... 68/91
Sharon Bowers, CCCID ............. 69/89
Questions/Discussion: ........... 93/185
REMARKS BY COMMISSIONER M. CLYBURN: ....... 79
Questions/Comments: ....................... 86
REMARKS BY COMMISSIONER A. PAI: .......... 113
Questions/Comments: ...................... 116
BROADBAND ADOPTION:
Thomas Koutsky, Connected Nation ... 127
Elizabeth Crocker, FRS ............. 146

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4
T-A-B-L-E O-F C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S
BROADBAND ADOPTION (Continued):
Cecilia Garcia, Benton Foundation .. 155
Questions/Discussion: .............. 163
SPECTRUM, WIRELESS TELECOMMUNICATIONS BUREAU:
Robert Alderfer .................... 196
Questions/Discussion: .............. 210
FCC WEBSITE - DISCUSSION:
Debra Berlyn, Chairperson .......... 217
Ed Bartholme ....................... 218
Discussion: ........................ 221
AFTER THE MERGER: WHAT'S FCC'S ROLE?:
James Bird, OGC .................... 241
Questions/Discussion: .............. 257
WORKING GROUPS:
Disability:
Lise Hamlin ........................ 271
Rebecca Ladew ...................... 274
Media:
Barry Umansky ...................... 276
Recommendation 1 (EAS): ........... 279
Motion/Vote to Approve: .......... 282
Recommendation 2 (Spectrum): ...... 283
Vote to Refer Back/Hold Off: ..... 313
Consumer:
Ed Bartholme ....................... 314
Table Recommendation: ............ 316
Broadband:
Mark DeFalco ....................... 317
Recommendation 1: ................. 318
Vote to Accept: ................... 325
SETUP TASK FORCE FOR FCC FEEDBACK: ....... 327
ADJOURN:
Debra Berlyn, Chairperson .......... 329

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5
1
P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S
2
8:52 a.m.
3
CHAIR BERLYN: Good morning,
4
everyone, and welcome to the Consumer Advisory
5
Committee meeting. Thank you all for those of
6
you who got here a little early this morning
7
and we were able to get your coffee. I
8
appreciate that. And we have a very full
9
agenda.
10
Once again, Scott has done a
11
fantastic job of pulling together this program.
12
I helped a little and so did some of you, so
13
thank you very much.
14
But we do have a really good program
15
and you will see during the course of the day.
16
And we will try and keep as much as we can on
17
schedule, but we do have some special guests
18
joining us this morning, as you will see from
19
the agenda.
20
The first thing I would like to do
21
is to go around and introduce ourselves. We
22
have some of you who may be here for the first

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6
1
time, if you are substituting for someone else.
2
So let's introduce ourselves.
3
I'm Debra Berlyn, Chair of the CAC,
4
and representing the National Consumers League.
5
And let's go around to Barry.
6
MR. UMANSKY: Good morning. I'm
7
Barry Umansky of the Digital Policy Institute
8
at Ball State University. And my colleague,
9
Robert Yadon, is here as well.
10
MR. POCIASK: And I'm Steve
11
Pociask. I'm with the American Consumer
12
Institute.
13
MR. BARTHOLME: I'm Ed Bartholme
14
with Call For Action.
15
MS. WALT: Good morning, everyone.
16
I'm Dorothy Walt. I'm a Regional
17
Representative for the Helen Keller National
18
Center, the Northwest Region. I'm happy to see
19
everyone this morning.
20
MR. LAGUARDA: Good morning. My
21
name is Fernando Laguarda and I'm representing
22
Time-Warner Cable.

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7
1
MS.
BOBECK:

Good
morning,
2
everyone. I'm Ann Bobeck from the National
3
Association of Broadcasters. And I just want
4
to welcome also our three summer interns who
5
are here. So good morning.
6
MS. PODEY: Good morning. I'm
7
Stephanie Podey from NCTA. I'm an alternate
8
for Rick Chessen.
9
MS. LANCETTI: Good morning, all.
10
Louis Lancetti here with T-Mobile and also with
11
an intern in the audience, Aveny Bell.
12
CHAIR BERLYN: If you all could
13
remember as you go around to wait for the mikes
14
to come on. Thanks.
15
MR. BERGMANN: Hi, I'm Scott
16
Bergmann on behalf of CTIA. And we represent
17
global wireless providers and equipment and
18
handset
manufacturers
and
applications
19
developers that bring wireless products to
20
consumers.
21
MS. LADEW: Hello. I'm Rebecca
22
Ladew
and
representing
the
Speech

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8
1
Communications Assistance by Telephone, Inc.
2
I would also like to add a happy Father's Day
3
for all of you who are fathers.
4
MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin. I'm
5
representing Hearing Loss Association of
6
America.
7
MR. STOUT: Hello. Claude Stout
8
and I'm with Deaf and Hard of Hearing Consumer
9
Advocacy Network.
10
MS. MARTINEZ: Good morning. Mia
11
Martinez with the National Asian American
12
Coalition.
13
MR. DeFALCO: Thank you. Mark
14
DeFalco
with
the
Appalachian
Regional
15
Commission.
16
MS. CRESPY: Good morning. I'm
17
Mary Crespy with Verizon.
18
MS. GARCIA: Good morning Cecilia
19
Garcia with The Benton Foundation.
20
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Did we miss
21
anyone? Ken, did you introduce yourself?
22
MR. McELDOWNEY: I didn't because

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9
1
I didn't have a name tag. I'm Ken McEldowney
2
from Consumer Action.
3
CHAIR BERLYN: And?
4
MR. MARSHALL: And I'm Scott
5
Marshall.
6
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Excellent.
7
And we do have some -- do we have anyone now
8
on the telephone?
9
MR. LEWIS: Yes. This is Clayton
10
Lewis, Coleman Institute.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: Clayton Lewis.
12
Okay. Great. Anyone else?
13
MR. NEILL: Hi, this is Art Neill,
14
good morning from the west coast, representing
15
Utility's Action Network.
16
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. And anyone
17
else? Okay.
18
MS. HAMLIN: Could you repeat those
19
two names, because they didn't come across and
20
I could not hear them.
21
CHAIR BERLYN: Sure. Clayton
22
Lewis is on the line and Art Neill.

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10
1
Okay. Well, welcome everybody.
2
The first order of business, I would like to
3
thank NCTA for providing our meals this morning.
4
So, Stephanie and Rick Chessen, thank you very
5
much. We appreciate that.
6
And our first speaker Kris Monteith,
7
the Bureau Chief, Acting Bureau Chief for
8
Consumer and Governmental Affairs will be down
9
momentarily. So that we will get started
10
shortly.
11
Yes, well, Scott, we can do that.
12
And meanwhile, I want to know if anyone has
13
any questions about our program today? As you
14
know, we will be having most of our program
15
sessions this morning and then we do have our
16
working group session meeting right after lunch,
17
soon after lunch. Actually, not right after
18
lunch. And then we have our recommendations
19
that will be discussed after that.
20
So hopefully you all will be able
21
to stay. I know Ken has a flight towards the
22
end of the day, but other than that, I hope that

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11
1
you all will be able to stay for the full program.
2
It is important that we have your full
3
participation for the discussions on the
4
recommendations. We have some very interesting
5
ones today and those are really important.
6
Does anyone have any questions?
7
Yes, Lise?
8
MS. HAMLIN: Yes, I just had a quick
9
question here. Well, I noticed that it doesn't
10
talk about a next meeting.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: Sure. Yes, we --
12
and it's a very good question and something that
13
I did want to discuss at some point today. So
14
I will discuss that right now.
15
We do have a next meeting planned
16
for the month of October. And Scott is working
17
with logistics to find out availability for here
18
in the meeting room. Most likely another
19
Friday, those are the best days to get
20
availability here. And also we traditionally
21
try and make them for Fridays.
22
So we are looking at a Friday in

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12
1
October for the next meeting.
2
I think some of you may know this,
3
but perhaps not all of you know this, that the
4
CAC has a two-year charter and our charter
5
actually ends in November of this year, which
6
means that October is our last meeting of this
7
Consumer Advisory Committee.
8
So Scott and I may talk a little bit
9
more about that later, but that -- you know,
10
it's one of those things where it comes as a
11
bit of a surprise because we actually started
12
with our first meeting the August after we would
13
have officially been chartered. So it gave us
14
just a little bit over a year.
15
So we will talk a little bit more
16
about that later.
17
I see Kris is here. Perfect timing.
18
We are ready for you. So thank you very much
19
and, Kris Monteith, Acting Bureau Chief. Thank
20
you for joining us.
21
MS. MONTEITH: Yes, absolutely.
22
Good morning, everyone. It's great to see you

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13
1
here. And we certainly appreciate your coming
2
today and helping the Commission to advance its
3
Consumer Protection and Empowerment agenda.
4
Since we last met in February, the
5
Bureau has had a busy time. Lots of things going
6
on and I will just mention a couple of the things
7
that we have been working on at a high level.
8
And I did the smart thing and brought the
9
experts with me who can address them in more
10
depth.
11
So in a nutshell, over the course
12
of the last few months, we have released two
13
significant Commission level items on important
14
issues Cramming and PSAP Do-Not-Call and several
15
Bureau-level items on equally important issues,
16
such as TRS and Caller ID.
17
We have taken some important steps
18
towards launching the National Deaf Blind
19
Equipment Distribution Program and sought
20
nominations for the second annual Chairman's
21
Award for Advancement and Accessibility.
22
We released our Consumer Complaint

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1
Quarterly Report numbers of the first quarter
2
of 2012 and the second quarter will follow
3
shortly.
4
We have exhibited major industry and
5
consumer conferences to educate consumers on
6
key telecom issues. In conjunction with other
7
parts of the Agency, we worked with industry
8
on Consumer Protection issues, such as stolen
9
and lost cell phones to address those issues
10
in a voluntary way and issued new FAQ sheets
11
and guides to educate consumers.
12
We have undertaken a number of
13
important listening and consultation sessions
14
with Native Nations and have done a soft launch
15
of our new Native Learning Labs. And we have
16
hosted our fourth state and local webinar.
17
These are just a few of the things
18
we have been working on. It has been a very
19
busy few months, a very interesting few months
20
for me personally and professionally and, of
21
course, there are lots of things going on at
22
the Commission outside of CGB, which will be

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15
1
a part of your agenda and discussion, we'll touch
2
on a couple of those.
3
I know that you have previously
4
talked with Josh Gottheimer, the Chairman Senior
5
Counselor, on a wide range of issues and most
6
particularly broadband and the public/private
7
initiatives effort the Commission has going on.
8
Today, you will continue the
9
discussion on broadband adoption with outside
10
advocacy organizations and, of course, your own
11
member, The Benton Foundation.
12
Broadband availability and adoption
13
is such a critical issue for the country and
14
the
Commission,
reiterated
again
with
15
yesterday's executive order, removing barriers
16
to broadband infrastructure deployment on
17
federal lands and buildings and making it easier
18
to
deploy high-speed Internet across the
19
country.
20
I hope you will share with the
21
Commission your thoughts and recommendations
22
on how we can address these types of barriers

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16
1
faced by many communities across the nation.
2
The Spectrum is another critical
3
issue facing the country as the Commission looks
4
at ways to make sure that we use this finite
5
resource efficiently and effectively and
6
properly allocate Spectrum among many competing
7
interests. Please, help us ensure that the
8
interests of consumers are not lost in the mix.
9
With respect to mergers, we are all
10
very aware that consumers have interests at
11
stake when mergers take place. There is a role
12
for the CAC to play in helping the Commission
13
to monitor merger conditions, which we often
14
impose as these transactions move forward, and
15
I'm happy to see you consider this topic.
16
On Universal Service, thank you very
17
much for your extensive recommendations. We
18
know that the Universal Service Working Group
19
is engaged with our outreach team as we begin
20
spreading the word regarding our new Lifeline
21
roles.
22
Later this morning, you will be

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17
1
hearing from folks in CGB that are working on
2
our consumer complaint process. We are hoping
3
to make changes that will make the process more
4
transparent and consumer-friendly, which will
5
allow us to better utilize the information we
6
receive from consumers in our rulemakings.
7
We
look
forward
to
your
8
recommendations about this topic, which really
9
encompasses many of CGB's and the Commission's
10
systems and processes, including our telephone
11
IVR system, our website and, of course, the
12
complaint forms themselves.
13
Finally, I note that you are
14
addressing other timely issues, including EAS,
15
which has been updated for the first time since
16
the 1960s and the issue of third-party wireless
17
shutdowns.
18
In short, it has been busy, lots on
19
our plates. I'll turn it over to Mark and Karen
20
and Roger Goldblatt is also here to address our
21
outreach efforts and we would certainly like
22
your input on some of those issues as well.

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18
1
Again, we greatly appreciate your
2
sharing your time and your expertise with the
3
Commission. Mark?
4
MR. STONE: Good morning. I want
5
to highlight for you two of the major items that
6
our Policy Division has accomplished since you
7
met last February.
8
First, I want to discuss the new
9
Rules on Cramming. And second is an NPRM to
10
begin establishing a Do-Not-Call Registry for
11
public safety answering points.
12
First, Cramming. I mentioned at
13
your last meeting that the Commission had
14
proposed rules to help consumers avoid Cramming,
15
which is the placement of unauthorized charges
16
on phone bills.
17
On April 27th, the Commission
18
adopted new rules to address Cramming and sought
19
further comment on potential further steps to
20
help consumers. I want to highlight a couple
21
of the things the Commission did.
22
First, the Commission required

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19
1
landline telephone companies to notify
2
subscribers at the point of sale on each bill
3
and on their websites of the options to block
4
third-party charges from their landline
5
telephone bills, if the carrier offers that
6
option.
7
Second,
it
strengthens
the
8
Commission's requirement that third-party
9
charges be separated from the landline telephone
10
company's charges on phone bills.
11
And third, it asks whether the
12
Commission should adopt additional protections,
13
such as requiring landline telephone companies
14
to get consumer consent before placing those
15
third-party charges on their telephone bills,
16
if the company already offers to block such
17
charges.
18
And fourth, it asked about Cramming
19
for commercial and mobile radio service, such
20
as wireless telephone companies or providers
21
of Voice-Over-Internet-Protocol service. The
22
Commission said it would monitor complaints from

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20
1
consumers of these services.
2
Comments on the further notice are
3
due June 25th and reply comments on July 9th.
4
The second major item Kris mentioned
5
that we have been working on is a Do-Not-Call
6
Registry for public safety answering points.
7
The Commission adopted NPRM on this on May 21st.
8
First, a bit of background. A
9
provision of the Middle Class Tax Relief and
10
Job Creation Act of 2012 requires the Commission
11
to initiate within 90 days of enactment a
12
proceeding to create a specialized Do-Not-Call
13
Registry for public safety answering points.
14
This provision addresses concerns
15
about the use of automatic dialing equipment
16
or robocalls which can generate large numbers
17
of phone calls in a short time, tie up public
18
safety lines, divert critical responder
19
resources away from emergency services and
20
impede access by the public to emergency
21
services.
22
The NPRM initiated a proceeding to

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21
1
establish a registry that allows PSAPs to
2
register telephone numbers on a PSAP-specific
3
Do-Not-Call List and prohibit the use of
4
automatic dialing equipment to contact those
5
registry numbers.
6
The PSAP Registry would build upon
7
the existing protections under the Telephone
8
Consumer Protection Act against the use of auto
9
dialers to contact emergency numbers by
10
precluding operators of automatic dialing
11
equipment from using such equipment to contact
12
any number included on the registry.
13
The NPRM seeks comment on the
14
structure and operation of the proposed registry
15
setting forth several proposals. The NPRM asks
16
about the most efficient means of establishing
17
a registry, the process for accessing the
18
registry by operators of that equipment,
19
safeguards to protect numbers in the registry
20
from unauthorized disclosure or dissemination,
21
rules to prohibit the use of automatic dialing
22
equipment to contact numbers on the registry

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22
1
and enforcement provisions contained in the Tax
2
Relief Act.
3
Among the specific questions the
4
NPRM asked is which PSAP numbers should be
5
included on the registry? Is the FTC's approach
6
to the National Do-Not-Call Registry a useful
7
and effective model for the PSAP Registry? What
8
should be the process for verifying and updating
9
PSAP numbers in the registry?
10
How should the registry be made
11
available to operators of automatic dialing
12
equipment?

And
finally,
does
the
13
Communications Act and the Middle Class Tax
14
Relief Act give the Commission authority to
15
propose fines for a first violation of the Act's
16
provision or must the Commission first issue
17
a citation to a non-regulated violator as
18
required by the Standard Enforcement Provisions
19
of Section 503 of the Communications Act?
20
In closing, I want to thank all of
21
you for your hard work on these key consumer
22
issues. It really does make a difference both

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1
to CGB and the rest of the Commission. Thanks
2
again.
3
MS. PELTZ STRAUSS: Hi. I'm Karen
4
Strauss. It's great to see all of you again.
5
I'm going to give you an update on all that
6
we have been doing on the disability issues.
7
The
first
major
thing
is
8
Internet-based captioning. As many of you
9
know, in January we released rules that are going
10
to require that all television programs shown
11
with captions on TV must contain those captions
12
when moved to the Internet.
13
And I believe that I already talked
14
to you about this last time, but just as a quick
15
review, the rules are going to be going into
16
effect beginning this coming September. So I'm
17
not sure you are meeting before then, so I just
18
thought I would remind you of that.
19
And that particular set of rules
20
cover pre-recorded programming that is not
21
edited for Internet distribution. Once those
22
programs are shown on TV with captions, when

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1
they are shown for Internet distribution, they
2
will have to be captioned as of September 30th.
3
March 30, 2013, the rules apply to
4
live and near-live programming. Near-live is
5
programs such as late night programming. And
6
on September 30, 2013, the rules are extended
7
to pre-recorded programming edited for Internet
8
distribution.
9
There are different rules that are
10
a little further out for archival programming,
11
that is programming that is already in an
12
Internet distributor's library. After those
13
programs are shown on TV, those distributors
14
have a little bit of extra time.
15
That's the first item in CVA. The
16
21st
Century
Communications
and
Video
17
Accessibility Act that I wanted to mention.
18
The
second
item
is
video
19
description. As you probably know, many of you
20
are already familiar with a lot of this. Our
21
rules on video description are going to go into
22
effect this July. It's very exciting for the

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25
1
blind and visually impaired community.
2
These rules were originally adopted
3
by the Commission in the year 2000 and they were
4
overturned by a Federal Court for lack of
5
authority. In the CVAA Congress instructed the
6
Commission to reinstate the rules. And so these
7
rules are now being reinstated.
8
And they will apply to the four
9
National Broadcast Networks, that's ABC, CBS,
10
NBC, FOX, and their affiliates in the top 25
11
markets, as well as the top five cable channels,
12
and that includes USA, Disney, TNT, TBS,
13
Nickelodeon and Nick at Nite.
14
The rules are not as comprehensive
15
as our Closed Caption Rules. They require only
16
four hours of primetime or children's
17
programming per week, that is roughly 50 hours
18
per calendar quarter. However, the FCC has
19
additional authority to conduct an inquiry on
20
the benefits, uses and availability and costs
21
of the rules one year after the phase-in and
22
can expand the rules, if necessary.

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1
The next item that I want to mention
2
is
the
National
Deaf/Blind
Equipment
3
Distribution Program. That program is also
4
going into effect this July. That program --
5
Kris mentioned that program. That program is
6
going to distribute through local entities
7
equipment, telecommunications and advanced
8
communication service equipment to low-income
9
individuals who are deaf/blind.
10
They have to meet the Federal
11
Poverty Guideline level that we are using as
12
400 percent of the poverty guideline level will
13
qualify them. They also need to meet a
14
definition set by the statute or actually set
15
by the National Helen Keller Statute.
16
These individuals as well can get
17
assessments, training. The program will cover
18
warranties, outreach and all other associated
19
related costs that are reasonable will be
20
covered by the program.
21
There will be one program in every
22
state or locality that will be responsible for

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27
1
conducting this distribution. We are on the
2
cusp of announcing the certified entities. We
3
had issued a public notice a few months back
4
seeking applications and did a thorough review
5
of those applications to make sure that each
6
entity would be qualified to comply with all
7
of our rules under this program.
8
I should mention it's a pilot
9
program. We have authorized it for two to three
10
years, so that we can really figure out how the
11
program needs to work. There are several
12
reporting requirements by these various
13
entities. We are going to be reviewing those
14
very carefully to make sure that the program
15
is meeting the needs of the community that it
16
is intended to serve.
17
In all, there will be 53 entities
18
that are certified. We also just recently
19
announced the National Outreach Coordinator.
20
It's the Perkins School for the Blind in
21
conjunction with the Helen Keller National
22
Center and FableVision. They have been awarded

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1
$500,000 per each year of the pilot program to
2
conduct national outreach.
3
So we are set. We are almost set
4
to begin very soon and you will be hearing more
5
about that in some public notices.
6
The next thing that I want to mention
7
is the work that we have been doing on Next
8
Generation 911. Many of you are already
9
familiar with some of this, but it has been very,
10
very exciting. We have a Notice of Proposed
11
Rulemaking that has been pending since September
12
on NG911 focused mostly on text to 911.
13
Our Emergency Access Advisory
14
Committee that was created under the CVA has
15
been meeting regularly. In 2011, it met monthly
16
per the requirements of the Act. Now, it has
17
been meeting more infrequently, but still
18
meeting.
19
The group produced or the committee
20
produced a survey covering and analyzing,
21
approximately, 3,000 -- well, 10,000 people
22
responded to the survey. 3,000 completed

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1
surveys by people with disabilities reporting
2
on how they access emergency services.
3
And the product of that survey and
4
the product of the committee's report eventually
5
led to a resolution that people with
6
disabilities wanted access to 911 via text.
7
And tremendous progress has been made in that
8
area.
9
Since then, Verizon and AT&T have
10
announced that they are going to be piloting
11
Text to 911 programs. And so we are going to
12
be working with these companies in order to make
13
sure that outreach is done and our Consumer
14
Outreach Office will be orchestrating some
15
meetings shortly to coordinate efforts between
16
consumers, industry, PSAPs and other relevant
17
stakeholders.
18
Just really quickly, I want to
19
mention that in October we also have to submit
20
to Congress a report on how we have been doing
21
with respect to achieving accessibility of
22
advanced
communication
services
and

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30
1
telecommunication services. We are also
2
continuing to work on our clearinghouse, our
3
accessibility clearinghouse that provides
4
products and services, information about
5
accessible products and services to the
6
community.
7
And we just recently released a
8
public notice seeking comment on our -- the
9
report that we received from our Video
10
Programming Access Advisory Committee on making
11
devices compatible with video description and
12
providing emergency access information or
13
information about emergencies accessible to
14
people with -- who are blind and visually
15
impaired.
16
Those are two requirements -- that's
17
emergency information, in this context, I'm
18
talking about is on television. Those are two
19
issues that are dealt with in the video
20
programming section of the CVAA and we are
21
getting comments back and replies are due on
22
June 19th, because we are going to have to be

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31
1
issuing rules on that.
2
And I know I have made your brains
3
fried, at this point, so I'm going to stop
4
talking. But you can see that we have a lot
5
to do. I'm going to be back later on for the
6
disability group. Cheryl King is going to be
7
joining you initially and then I'm going to be
8
stepping in a little bit later on. So I can
9
fill you in on more of the details.
10
MS. MONTEITH: Thanks very much,
11
Karen. Now, Roger, if you would, please, talk
12
a little bit about some of the consumer outreach
13
issues and, particularly, where we could use
14
some help?
15
MR. GOLDBLATT: Okay. Thank you.
16
First of all, I wanted to start with thank you
17
and then I'll end with a request.
18
Many of you have been generous
19
enough to invite us to exhibit at your
20
conventions. We did CS and CTA, NAD in the past
21
few months. And I would say you really ran us
22
ragged. I say the two or three people we have

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32
1
had at the booth had been busy nonstop.
2
It so gratifying to have people come
3
to us and say thank you for being here. And
4
they come out and they bring their little ragged
5
list of questions they have for FCC. And then,
6
of course, you always have, no matter where we
7
go for the past 12 years I have been here, the
8
HAM operators that come and want to show their
9
little HAM licenses.
10
But outreach is really fascinating
11
here, because FCC has a lot of lawyers and a
12
lot of engineers. I mean, we come out with a
13
lot of great rules and regulations that really
14
help consumers. But if you ask your parents
15
or grandparents or niece or nephews or children
16
or neighbors what some of these words like the
17
viewability, cramming, broadband, Spectrum,
18
eRate, Universal Service, robocalls, billshock,
19
VoIP, LPFM, LPTV, they won't know what you are
20
talking about.
21
We have people that come to us and
22
they go, you know, I go into McDonalds and I

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1
see this little sign, what does that mean? And
2
we say well, that means they have wireless.
3
And they go really? Or they wonder about the
4
QR Code. What does that mean? I say well, you
5
can take your Smartphone and you can get to a
6
website. And they go really?
7
So what we try to do, as far as
8
outreach, is to kind of be the bridge, be the
9
conduit and say, okay, FCC does an awful lot
10
to help consumers and we will try to explain
11
to you what it is and what we do.
12
And that's why they come with these
13
questions. And we really do an awful lot,
14
because we have groups that come in and we say
15
well, what does FCC mean to you? What do you
16
think FCC does? And I would say 99 to 100
17
percent will say indecency and obscenity. To
18
tell you the truth, that's like, you know, very,
19
very little percent of what we do, but we do
20
an awful lot to help consumers.
21
And we try to, because we are a small
22
band of people, concentrate on certain areas.

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34
1
People with disabilities, people in rural
2
areas, minorities, African-Americans, Asians,
3
non-English-speaking people, Hispanics, very,
4
very important, seniors.
5
We find that a lot of seniors are
6
afraid to get onto broadband. It isn't always
7
a financial issue. It's just not knowing what
8
is going on. And I think you have had people
9
talk about our Connect to Compete Program,
10
because it's really important. And we are
11
trying to work pilot programs around the country
12
to get people to understand how important it
13
is to be on the computer.
14
We are actually exhibiting next week
15
at the American Library Association, because
16
libraries are so important for people who don't
17
have computers. People who go look for jobs
18
on the computers. People who don't have
19
computers look at their emails. Kids who don't
20
have computers at home do their homework. I
21
mean, so we try to form partnerships.
22
And what we try to do also is I think

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35
1
we do a decent job, but we could do a heck of
2
a lot better job. You know, we work on
3
distracted driving. I don't know about you,
4
but I don't think we have done enough on that.
5
You look and you see how many people
6
are still texting and are talking on the phone
7
while they are driving. You know, that's an
8
FCC issue. Almost for a small Agency, we cut,
9
probably impact everybody in some aspect of
10
their life, whether it be TV, television,
11
computers. You know, there are so many aspects.
12
So what we would like to do, you
13
know, like I said, we are the face of the FCC.
14
We go and people ask us questions. FCC like
15
every other Federal Agency has budget cuts.
16
So we try to do the best we can. We are
17
experimenting with technology, ways we can do
18
things from here, but it does help when we are
19
out there and people come to us and they have
20
their questions.
21
So if you can help us come up with
22
ideas how can we impact? How can we reach

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36
1
people? How can we translate? How can we get
2
the word out to people all over the country?
3
We really -- any creative ideas that
4
you have, we are open to. There pretty much
5
are no barriers as far as ideas. We really are
6
so enthusiastic. We really want to get the word
7
out. We love talking to people. We love when
8
they come and they say thank you and by the way,
9
I have a question. And we will try to answer.
10
And that's our goal. We are not
11
experts, but we know who the experts are. So
12
to come to us, we get the answer and I think
13
a lot of times they are surprised because like,
14
you know, we are from the Government and we're
15
here to help you and we really are there to help.
16
So like I said, I started with thank
17
you for those who have invited us and we have
18
worked with. And I know most of you. I think
19
of all of you as friends and partners. So I
20
guess I want to end with a request.
21
Any ideas you have for how we can
22
outreach better, how we can partner better, how

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1
we can reach a lot of the under-served
2
communities that really need us or need to know
3
a lot of the programs that are available, the
4
Lifeline programs, the eRate programs. There
5
are so many good things the FCC does and we really
6
need your assistance.
7
So thank you very much.
8
MS. MONTEITH: I would like to
9
introduce my Acting Chief of Staff, the Acting
10
Chief of Staff for CGB, Michael Carowitz.
11
MR. CAROWITZ: Hi. I just --
12
CHAIR BERLYN: You need the mike.
13
MR. CAROWITZ: Thanks. I just
14
wanted to say hello to everybody and let you
15
know that I'm here as a point of contact in the
16
CGB. If there is anything that you need at any
17
point, please, feel free to give me a call.
18
I can point you in the right direction and get
19
you acquainted with the right people.
20
And because I'm new, your questions
21
will help me learn my job just a little bit
22
quicker. So thanks.

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1
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Questions?
2
MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes. I guess I
3
continue to be very disappointed by the sort
4
of inability of the FCC to free-up money for
5
serious outreach. I really applaud the fact
6
that you want to try to reach low-income
7
consumers. You want to reach the people
8
who--for whom English is not the primary
9
language. But I think that as most of the folks
10
around this table will know, that takes money.
11
And putting stuff on a website
12
doesn't do it. Going to National Conference
13
doesn't do it. You have got to work with the
14
actual agencies that are working with consumers
15
on a day-to-day basis.
16
And it's just it can -- it has sort
17
of been refrained that I and other people on
18
this Council have been saying for years and years
19
and years. And I have just not seen a serious
20
commitment in that area, whether it is on
21
Lifeline or anything else. There has to be
22
printed materials. There has to be money for

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39
1
distribution of them. There has to be money
2
for training. And we are not talking -- you
3
know, I would be happy just to see a few $100,000
4
dollars in terms of commitment by the Commission
5
to actually reach the people that you purport
6
to help.
7
And I think that certainly going to
8
conferences and things like that, working at
9
the library is a small first step, but it's a
10
very tiny, tiny, tiny step. And I think you
11
really have to figure out how in a tight budget
12
era to free-up some money for serious outreach
13
with printed materials in different languages.
14
You now, Consumer Action does it
15
with a very small budget, smaller than yours.
16
And I think other organizations around the
17
table do as well, as do many of the companies.
18
I think the models are out there.
19
I just think that the FCC really has to get
20
serious and step up to the table.
21
MS. MONTEITH: I'm happy to hear you
22
say that, Ken, honestly, because I think one

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1
of the issues as Roger was saying that we really
2
face is in an era of shrinking budgets, is the
3
consumer outreach function -- how is the
4
consumer outreach function viewed?
5
And I think that the core group of
6
folks in CGB think it is a mission critical
7
function for the Commission. But we, as
8
Government Agencies, you know, face shrinking
9
budgets. So we would really appreciate your
10
help in -- on that issue to say yes, it is
11
important for the Commission to get out there
12
and actually have a face-to-face conversation
13
with consumers outside of the, you know,
14
proverbial beltway. So I appreciate your
15
comments in that regard.
16
MR. McELDOWNEY: Just a quick
17
follow-up to that. I don't think it's necessary
18
for the Commission to get out and talk to
19
individual consumers. Consumer Action uses a
20
Train the Trainer model. We train between 800
21
and 1,000 community group staff a year around
22
the country in terms of how to successfully use

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1
our materials in the community.
2
And the advantage of that is that
3
these are the agencies that work with consumers
4
on a day-to-day basis on a wide range of issues
5
in a wide range of languages. We would go nuts
6
if we wanted to try to reach individual
7
consumers.
8
But our 7,000 agencies put over a
9
million pieces of literature a year in the hands
10
of consumers, because they are on the ground.
11
And I think that's something that the
12
Commission has to do is to work with the groups
13
more closely throughout the country. They are
14
actually working with consumers on a day-to-day
15
basis.
16
For example, the small foundation
17
grant, we are training about 45 community group
18
staff in San Bernardino in terms of proper use
19
of cell phones with materials that we did for
20
the small, you know, foundation grid. And that
21
has got to reach a huge number of consumers.
22
CHAIR BERLYN: If I could, we have

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1
a Commissioner in the room. I see two tent
2
cards up. I will allow one more question. If
3
you could make it very brief and then I'm afraid
4
we will have to move on. We do have someone
5
else we will take, if you don't mind, perhaps
6
just give me your questions and I can forward
7
them on to Kris, so that we don't lose your
8
questions in the course of our discussion today,
9
because I know that your questions are
10
important.
11
Irene, you put your question down.
12
I don't know who came up first.
13
MS. LEECH: He came up first.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.
15
MS. LEECH: That's why I did that.
16
CHAIR BERLYN: All right. So make
17
sure that you get your question to me. And go
18
ahead. And if you could make your question a
19
question and brief?
20
MS. HERRERA: Yes.
21
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.
22
MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera, Cable

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1
and Broadband Administrator from Montgomery
2
County Maryland.
3
One thing I would just note to you,
4
we have had a recent thing with the Broadband
5
Adoption Program. If you work with local
6
governments or you pick a few larger ones, they
7
can help bring together the people who run
8
programs aimed at low-income clients from HHS
9
or Health and Human Services, the housing
10
people, the schools and you can -- they can help
11
organize meetings for you where you can come
12
out and effectively reach people who are -- to
13
find your target population.
14
So you should try to look at some
15
of those local partners in addition with our
16
consumer groups.
17
CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you.
18
MS. WALT: Do you mind if people can
19
identify themselves before they speak?
20
CHAIR BERLYN: Absolutely. You
21
should identify yourself. I believe you did.
22
MS. HERRERA: I did. But Mitsi

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1
Herrera, the Cable and Broadband Administrator
2
from Montgomery County Maryland.
3
CHAIR BERLYN: I'm sorry, I thought
4
you did.
5
MS. WALT: Thank you.
6
CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you.
7
MS. MONTEITH: Thank you.
8
CHAIR BERLYN: Well, thank you very
9
much, Kris. I greatly appreciate you coming
10
and speaking with us with your entire team.
11
It has been great. We will make sure if anyone
12
has any other questions, please, forward them
13
to me or to Scott and we will make sure that
14
Kris does get them, so that we don't lose that
15
opportunity. So thank you again.
16
MS. MONTEITH: Thank you so much.
17
CHAIR BERLYN: We will also have
18
someone else from Kris' team here.
19
(Applause)
20
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. It is my
21
pleasure to call Commissioner Rosenworcel to
22
the table. Right here we have a spot. For

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1
those of you who don't know our new Commissioner
2
here, I don't know is there anyone in the room
3
who does not know our new Commissioner?
4
She was probably in the room several
5
times with her former boss who was outstanding,
6
Commissioner Copps. And she is, I'm sure, going
7
to continue his legacy of strong consumer
8
policies here at the Commission and we are so
9
pleased to have you here today. So welcome.
10
COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Thank
11
you. So as Debbie was just saying, it's a not
12
very closely held secret that I am not entirely
13
new to the Agency, though I was just sworn in
14
to office last month. So I'm familiar with this
15
room and many of the people who are sitting here
16
today with a lot of the issues. And at the risk
17
of aging myself, I even remember back in 2000
18
when the Commission first started the Consumer
19
Advisory Committee.
20
So the work you do, I know because
21
I have watched it for so many years, is really,
22
really important.

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1
And thinking back on it, I was
2
thinking about what I did between my last tour
3
of duty at the FCC and what I hoped to do in
4
the weeks and months ahead. I spent five years
5
on Capitol Hill and the bulk of that time was
6
spent on the Digital Television transition, the
7
Broadband Data Improvement Act, the 21st Century
8
Communications and Video Accessibility Act and
9
on Spectrum Auctions.
10
And if there is a single thread that
11
connects all of those things, it's how they
12
impact consumers from the DTV transition making
13
sure everyone does not lose access to
14
television, so that they can get not just
15
entertainment,
but
critical
news
and
16
information to the Broadband Date Improvement
17
Act, which is about trying to figure out where
18
broadband is and is not in households across
19
this country.
20
To also, obviously, the 21st Century
21
Communications and Video Accessibility Act,
22
which is about making sure that everyone in this

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1
country, no matter who they are, has access to
2
the great services available in the digital age.
3
And
then
finally,
Spectrum
4
Auctions, which seems sort of wonkish and
5
academic, but in the end is not just about making
6
sure there are opportunities for wireless
7
providers to do new and innovative things with
8
Spectrum, but it's about taking those Spectrum
9
resources and pushing them into consumers'
10
hands, so that they can have access to a whole
11
new range of services.
12
So that's what I have been doing
13
during the last five years, but now I'm back
14
in the Agency and I'm looking forward to working
15
with all of you trying to figure out what the
16
Agency does well when it comes to consumers and,
17
quite frankly, what the Agency can do better.
18
So I'm looking forward to starting
19
a dialogue with everyone here, with the
20
Committee at-large and I just wanted to let you
21
know that my door is always open.
22
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Yes,

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1
does anyone -- I don't know if anyone has any
2
questions for the Commissioner? This is the
3
honeymoon phase. Julie?
4
MS. KEARNEY: I actually -- this is
5
Julie Kearney from the Consumer Electronics
6
Association. I don't have a question. I just
7
have a welcome back. It's great to have you
8
here. And I know you are such an expert on the
9
issues and you have got a great staff.
10
COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: That's
11
right. I'll make sure you meet Priscilla
12
Argeris, who is part of my staff, and we will
13
be working on wire lineage use, a lot of consumer
14
issues and she should become a familiar name
15
and face to you. She knows a lot already and
16
is going to know more even when she converses
17
with all of you.
18
MS. KEARNEY: Great. So nothing
19
except we are thrilled to have you back.
20
COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Okay.
21
CHAIR BERLYN: And I will add to
22
that, it's a pleasure to -- you know, I should

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1
have mentioned that you have such an outstanding
2
history on all the issues, but particularly with
3
representing consumers on all these issues.
4
So we are so lucky to have you here
5
and so many of us know that that is so true having
6
worked with you not only here, but also on
7
Capitol Hill. So we are very happy to have you.
8
COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: I have
9
worked extensively with Debbie on the DTV
10
transition. She was really an impressive
11
advocate on behalf of AARP at the time.
12
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.
13
COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: And so
14
I have a lot of respect for what you have done.
15
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Thank
16
you. Paul, do you have a --
17
MR. SCHROEDER: Yes. Paul
18
Schroeder with the American Foundation for --
19
do we have this microphone on? Yes, okay, good.
20
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, you're on.
21
MR. SCHROEDER: Paul Schroeder,
22
American
Foundation
for
the
Blind.

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1
Commissioner, good to work with you here as well
2
as having worked with you on the Hill. I do
3
hope that one of the things we always encourage
4
Commissioners to do and some of them do it well,
5
some of them don't, is to remember that it's
6
important to talk about people with disabilities
7
as consumers in communications, not just here
8
and in front of consumer committees, but more
9
important when you are out talking with
10
industry, in particular, because I do think
11
sometimes those issues tend to get forgotten.
12
And you have a terrific megaphone
13
to be able to bring people's attention to those
14
issues. And I think, particularly, the issues
15
that relate to consumers with disabilities are
16
often overlooked and forgotten when we are
17
talking about communications policies.
18
So I do hope you will -- I appreciate
19
your shout out to the CVAA. We have worked hard
20
with your office on it at the time and I do hope
21
you will remember to talk about the importance
22
of involving people with disabilities and not

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1
just in sort of a throw away way, but really
2
in a meaningful way of talking about how
3
communication services that are accessible are
4
better for everyone and, of course, more useful
5
for all consumers.
6
COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Thank
7
you. Good points.
8
CHAIR BERLYN: All right.
9
COMMISSIONER
ROSENWORCEL:
10
Appreciate it.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you so much.
12
COMMISSIONER ROSENWORCEL: Thank
13
you.
14
(Applause)
15
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Well,
16
this morning -- am I back on? This morning we
17
are joined, and I hope you will help me by
18
identifying yourselves by raising your hands
19
or standing up, by some members of FCC's
20
Intergovernmental Affairs Committee. And
21
there is -- are you Marlin Blizinsky? No?
22
Okay. Great.

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1
So I wanted to have -- maybe you will
2
have to self-identify yourselves, but I know
3
-- is Joyce Dickerson here? Great. Joyce
4
Dickerson, who is the Chair Commissioner with
5
Richland County Council in South Carolina, so
6
if you could just come on over for a moment?
7
And Vice Chair Marlin Blizinsky, are
8
you in the room? Okay. And I'm sorry, are you
9
with the -- there is another gentleman. I'm
10
sorry, you will have to come on over. I don't
11
have your name here, but you are Tom Sloan?
12
Representative Tom Sloan, come on over.
13
I just want to give them a couple
14
of minutes to say a few words to our Committee
15
from another committee. Welcome, thank you so
16
much.
17
MS. DICKERSON: Thank you so very
18
much.
19
CHAIR BERLYN: Welcome.
20
MS. DICKERSON: Good morning. And
21
thank you --
22
CHAIR BERLYN: Here let me get --

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1
I'm sorry, let me give you the mike.
2
MS. DICKERSON: Thank you. Good
3
morning and thank you, Madam Chair, for allowing
4
us to be with you --
5
CHAIR BERLYN: Oh and there are
6
other committee members here as well.
7
MS. DICKERSON: Yes.
8
CHAIR BERLYN: Well, if you can --
9
we've got a seat over here as well.
10
MS. DICKERSON: Okay.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: Maybe why don't you
12
introduce yourselves at the mikes --
13
MS. DICKERSON: Okay.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: -- if I missed you
15
with my introductions? Did I miss you? I
16
missed you, didn't I?
17
MR. FELLMAN: Yes, sorry. Ken
18
Fellman, City Attorney in Cherry Hills Village,
19
Colorado.
20
CHAIR BERLYN: And?
21
MR. HUCKABA: Andy Huckaba, City
22
Councilman, Lenexa, Kansas.

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1
CHAIR BERLYN: And I'm sorry I
2
didn't give you a proper introduction.
3
REPRESENTATIVE SLOAN: That's
4
fine. I'm Representative Tom Sloan from
5
Kansas.
6
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.
7
MS. DICKERSON: Thank you. Good
8
morning, Madam Chair. And thank you for the
9
opportunity and the privilege to be with you
10
this morning. I am Councilwoman Joyce
11
Dickerson from Columbia, South Carolina. And
12
I am very pleased to be here to introduce my
13
group this morning, our committee this morning,
14
the IAC.
15
Just to give you a little bit of the
16
background on the IAC, the IAC Advisory
17
Committee was a federal communications
18
appointee, which back in 1997 it was first
19
established the IAC predecessors, which was
20
Local and State Government Advisory Committee.
21
And in July it was changed from its name to
22
the advisory committee to be called the Body

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1
of the IAC to reflect a greater balance between
2
state, local and tribal governments and so that
3
we would have a better representation across
4
the board.
5
The urban and rural representation
6
also as well as the experts, we need some
7
expertise in Homeland Security and rural
8
matters.
9
And in November of 2011, the FCC
10
released a public notice announcing the new
11
members of the IAC who will serve for two years
12
from the first scheduled meeting, which was held
13
December 2011.
14
While
the
Commission
rules
15
authority of a 15 member committee, the Chairman
16
announced 14 of those and he left one of them
17
vacant and later I was appointed to be Chair
18
of this committee and I am very pleased to serve
19
with such a very, very well level of expertise
20
that I serve with veterans who have been here
21
for a long time and I'm just coming on as a novice
22
and I really, really feel very privileged to

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1
have this opportunity to serve.
2
As a matter of fact, I am just really
3
pleased and thankful that I believe that both
4
of these committees, both the CAC and the IAC,
5
can compliment each other and I think what we
6
bring to the table will bring a level of
7
expertise, because we will be addressing mostly
8
and mainly the same issues, although from a
9
different perspective.
10
And because we are coming from a
11
different perspective, I just believe that as
12
we work together to give and to give the
13
Commission some very good advice on some things
14
that we feel that will better serve the unserved
15
and the under-served to me is very, very
16
important, Madam Chair.
17
And I think as we go along working
18
together and sharing information, I think we
19
will be a strong body to make the Commission
20
a more stronger body as we go forward.
21
And so with that said, I'm just so
22
excited to be here this morning. And we are

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1
privileged to have the opportunity to come, that
2
you give us this opportunity to come and visit
3
with you this morning, because we feel that the
4
issues that we are addressing are so very
5
important and vital to the community, to our
6
citizens and to those that we serve on a
7
day-to-day basis.
8
And from my perspective, as a
9
Council Member, I deal with these issues on a
10
daily basis, because of my constituents. They
11
are always contacting me. Although I serve on
12
an 11 member panel, you would think that I am
13
the only one that is on that Commission, because
14
every time there is an issue, I don't care what
15
jurisdiction it is, they call Councilwoman Joyce
16
Dickerson.
17
I'm like don't you -- they have my
18
number on speed dial. And but I think it is
19
a very good thing, because when you have a
20
presence, in my opinion, in your community
21
working with your constituents on a daily basis,
22
having an open ear, I think that's a good thing

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1
when they know that you have an open door policy
2
that they can always come to and to me that is
3
an asset.
4
So with that said, I was going to
5
introduce my Vice Chair to you this morning and
6
let him say a few words, but I have veteran
7
members on this committee who have --
8
REPRESENTATIVE SLOAN: Marlin just
9
got here.
10
MS. DICKERSON: Oh, okay. Marlin,
11
you are just on time. But I have veterans on
12
this committee who have just been a tremendous
13
asset to me, Ken and Tom, they have me on speed
14
dial as well. And I think it's very good. We
15
have only -- this is our third time meeting,
16
but we have made a bond. We have put together
17
a bond, because we are addressing issues.
18
Our
committee
has
five
19
subcommittees of which Ken chairs one, my Vice
20
Chair Marlin is here, he is Vice Chair and chairs
21
our Broadband Adoption. So out of those five
22
subcommittees, we are trying to reach across

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1
the board to make sure that we address those
2
issues that we can bring to the FCC and making
3
sure that the advice we give and the comments
4
that we make will reflect the committee and make
5
sure that those things are very, very important
6
to the unserved and the under-served.
7
I think that's I got involved,
8
because I am so concerned about the unserved
9
and the under-served around the nation. So with
10
that said, if Marlin would like to have a few
11
words, I would like to share -- turn it over
12
to my Vice Chair and if any of the other members
13
would love to say anything, I would love to have
14
them -- would love to introduce them as well.
15
Thank you so very much for the
16
privilege, Madam Chair.
17
MR. BLIZINSKY: Thank you. Hi, I'm
18
Marlin Blizinsky. I'm from King County,
19
Washington, which is --
20
CHAIR BERLYN: Use the mike.
21
MR. BLIZINSKY: Is this better?
22
Yes. I'm from King County, Washington, which

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is the county that includes Seattle and Redmond.
2
And I want to thank you for meeting with us.
3
We are very interested in many
4
consumer issues as you are and so we wanted to
5
meet with you today to let you know of our
6
interests, but also let you know of our interest
7
in working with you, so that we are not working
8
across purposes and that if we are interested
9
in similar efforts, that we can work together
10
on those efforts and coordinate our activities
11
with you.
12
So thank you very much for having
13
us today and we look forward to working with
14
you.
15
MS. DICKERSON: And I would like to
16
introduce Tom Sloan, Representative Tom Sloan.
17
REPRESENTATIVE SLOAN: Thank you,
18
Madam Chairman, Madam Chairman. My only
19
comments are that as our Chairwoman indicated,
20
we are comprised of state legislators, local
21
government officials and I would encourage the
22
Members of the other Council and the general

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1
public not only to look at how we can interact
2
with the FCC, but also how we interact in our
3
home constituencies, and particularly the three
4
state legislators that are on the IAC.
5
You know, we all interact very
6
extensively with our Public Utility Commission
7
and a lot of consumer complaints start and end
8
at that level.
9
So, you know, speaking for the other
10
two who are not here and, therefore, you know,
11
I can speak for them, you know, we encourage
12
you to, you know, get our contact information
13
and, you know, use our resources, not only in
14
the three states we represent, but all three
15
of us are very active in the professional
16
associations that legislators have, so we can
17
carry messages to other states as well. Thank
18
you.
19
MS. DICKERSON: And I also did not
20
-- I would be remiss if I did not introduce Ken.
21
Well, he is probably not a stranger to Debbie.
22
MR. FELLMAN: No. I appreciate the

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opportunity to be here. Thank you, Madam Chair
2
and Chairwoman Berlyn. I served on the original
3
Government Advisory Committee, the Local and
4
State Government Advisory Committee, so this
5
is my second tour of duty and I'm very pleased
6
with how things are going so far with our
7
relationship
with
the
staff
and
the
8
Commissioners.
9
And this is a new experience for me
10
to have a joint meeting with another FCC Advisory
11
Committee, so I think it is a great opportunity
12
to move the ball forward on the issues that both
13
committees are dealing with. Thank you.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Thank
15
you all for --
16
MS. DICKERSON: I also would like
17
to introduce Radhika Karmarkar.
18
MS. KARMARKAR: Hi, I'm Radhika
19
Karmarkar. I'm also with New York City.
20
CHAIR BERLYN: You need to come to
21
the microphone.
22
MS. KARMARKAR: Sorry.

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CHAIR BERLYN: There are people in
2
the room who can't hear you.
3
MS. KARMARKAR: Hi, I'm Radhika
4
Karmarkar. I'm with New York City and I work
5
on franchising and consumer issues related to
6
franchising and regulatory issues in the city.
7
And I'm very happy to be here. I actually
8
worked with the FCC for a decade before I came
9
to New York, so it is really great for me.
10
And I have actually spoken to Mitsi
11
earlier, so it's good to meet you Mitsi. And
12
I'm looking forward to coordinating with both
13
groups.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you
15
all.
16
MS. DICKERSON: Okay.
17
CHAIR BERLYN: And I do recognize
18
you, Ken, because I can attest to the fact that
19
you were with the original committee, because
20
I came and spoke to you back in the late '90s,
21
I remember, after the Telecom Act Pact passed,
22
so I do recall that.

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This is a great opportunity. I'm
2
so glad that you came here today and we do have
3
so much in common that we should look for
4
opportunities to work together. So thank you
5
so much for coming today. And perhaps we can
6
come to one of your gatherings in the future.
7
MS. DICKERSON: Yes, Madam Chair,
8
I look forward to that. As a matter of fact,
9
I would think it would be a great thing for,
10
you know, if some time in the very near future,
11
once you work with your organ -- your Committee,
12
and we go forward with our committee, that we
13
look at a joint -- you know, having a joint
14
session if that is possible, because we could
15
share a lot of information.
16
And I just can't -- I would also be
17
remiss if I didn't thank my staff here for
18
helping me to coordinate this so very much and
19
I'm so pleased to have them with me. Thank you
20
again. And thank you for having us this
21
morning.
22
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.

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MS. DICKERSON: Thank you.
2
CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Thank
3
you. Deborah? Stay in your seats. We are
4
moving right into our next session group. Thank
5
you. Okay. Everyone stay in your seats. This
6
is an important session we are going to have
7
now talking about the Consumer Complaint Process
8
and some Reform that the FCC is working on and
9
needs our help on.
10
Are you all set?
11
MS. BRODERSON: Yes, absolutely.
12
CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Great.
13
So I would like to introduce Deborah Broderson,
14
Legal Advisor for CGB, and Sharon Bowers, Chief
15
Consumer Complaints and Inquiries Division at
16
CGB. So thank you both for joining us this
17
morning.
18
And if everybody is getting a little
19
antsy, we will have a break after this session,
20
but also just to let both of you know, that some
21
time during this session, we will be joined by
22
Commissioner Pai, so we will take a break at

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some point. He is going to be joining us some
2
time between 10:00 and 10:20, so I'll be on the
3
lookout and we will take a, you know, short five
4
minute break during this session and then we
5
will get back to it.
6
So everyone stay in your seats for
7
this great session. Thank you both for joining
8
us.
9
MS. BRODERSON: Good morning.
10
Thanks for being here. Thank you, Chairman
11
Berlyn and thanks to the IAC as well, Chairman
12
Dickerson and others who are here with us today.
13
Sharon and I are very excited.
14
Sharon drove all the way down from Gettysburg
15
this morning. She was so excited she got here
16
at 8:30. So that's how excited we are about
17
Consumer Complaint Reform and to talk to you
18
all about sort of the process that we have been
19
-- it has been underway for a little while, but
20
we are definitely sell and listening mode.
21
So we have some, if not direct asks,
22
then some pre-asks for you that will come at

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the end of the presentation. So something to
2
look forward to. Let me see if I can click.
3
Yes.
4
And we have a PowerPoint. I assume
5
that people who are attending on the phone have
6
it electronically, so -- but we will talk through
7
everything on the PowerPoint.
8
MS. BOWERS: As Deborah said, I
9
drove down from Gettysburg this morning across
10
the Battlefield and it was just a beautiful
11
morning and a beautiful sunrise. I actually
12
saw a couple of deer on the Battlefield, so it
13
was just a nice way to start the day.
14
And I appreciate this opportunity
15
to come down and speak with the CAC and Deborah
16
and I look forward to working with this group.
17
Just to give you a little bit of
18
background on the Complaints and Inquiry
19
Process, there are several methods in which a
20
consumer can file a complaint or an inquiry with
21
us.
22
They can file on-line on Form 2000

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Complaint or 1088. We also have the Slamming
2
Complaint Form and the Indecency Form. They
3
can send it via our website. They could send
4
it in, what we refer to these days, as snail
5
mail or they can fax it in or, in fact, they
6
can phone it in and we can take a complaint over
7
the phone for them.
8
CGB has a huge responsibility in
9
tracking the complaints and inquiries and
10
reporting it to our bureaus and offices that
11
help develop our policy to help protect
12
consumers. And we take this very important,
13
which is why we are here today to reach out to
14
the CAC on how we can maybe improve our processes
15
and talk to you about our Complaint Reform.
16
We also report by topics on our
17
quarterly report, which can be found on our
18
website. And as I said, the complaint
19
information drives proceedings and we often --
20
bureaus often reach out to us and ask for data
21
to help support proceedings.
22
MS. BRODERSON: And at times even

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initiate proceedings. I mean, that's one of
2
the exciting things about working with the
3
Consumer Complaints is that it's this direct
4
hotline, literally sometimes, from consumers
5
to tell us what is going on and sometimes we
6
end up spotting trends much -- even more quickly
7
than we could hear about them from lobbyists
8
or consumer advocates, because the consumers
9
are the ones who are directly affected.
10
Oops, click. So Sharon mentioned
11
our Quarterly Complaint Report. I put up some
12
statistics from the most recent report, which
13
was the first quarter, January through March.
14
So we break out report down into inquiries and
15
complaints.
16
Inquiry is a question from a
17
consumer about FCC policy, about the
18
regulations.
19
And a complaint is a request from
20
a consumer to do something. Something happened
21
to me, this company, I'm having a problem with
22
this company, this service provider, can you

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help me?
2
So we had almost 18,000 inquiries
3
in the first quarter and almost 90,000
4
complaints in the first quarter from consumers.
5
So that's a lot. You can see our numbers are
6
up 29 percent in inquiries, 32 percent for
7
complaints. So either something really bad is
8
happening out there or we are getting the word
9
out to consumers and we like to think that it's
10
just we are getting word out to consumers and
11
they know that they can come complain to us.
12
Although that, again, is something that we hope
13
to work on as well.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: A quick question
15
about that. When you track complaints over a
16
year long period, do they go up and down over
17
the year? So you are comparing it to the fourth
18
quarter, but over a year long period, are there
19
quarters where complaints go up and down?
20
So if you compared it to the first
21
quarter of 2010, how would they compare to first
22
quarter -- I'm sorry, 2011 compared to 2012?

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Because I remember looking at complaints over
2
a year long and they tend to go up and down.
3
So I'm just wondering how do they track over
4
a year long period of time?
5
MS. BOWERS: Well, and that's part
6
of the reason why we want to reach out to the
7
CAC and talk a little bit about our complaint
8
process. Because what we would like to develop
9
is that very type of tracking from year-to-year.
10
When we put the quarterly report
11
out, we don't specifically go back and then look
12
up and down like within the month or within that
13
general year.
14
But we want to improve how we intake
15
the complaint, so that we can do more of a drill
16
down, so we can see in specific subject matter
17
if there is a change.
18
Right now, it's too broad and that's
19
why we want to work on our Complaint Reform and
20
work directly with the bureaus on the subject
21
codes that we use. And we also are going to
22
talk a little bit about this as well,

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specializing our team to deal with specific
2
subject matter, so if we did see a spike in a
3
complaint type, we would be able to identify
4
it immediately.
5
MS. BRODERSON: Or a drop in a
6
complaint type, which again could be good news
7
and something that the Commission could share
8
like hey, consumers are no longer complaining
9
about this. Maybe it's something the
10
Commission did or that the consumer advocates
11
did that made things better sometimes.
12
Again, from the same report, I
13
pulled out our top categories for inquiries and
14
complaints. For cable billing and rates,
15
broadcasting,
programming,
no
surprise.
16
Wireless, licensing information, wireless and
17
wire-line, TCPA complaints, unwanted calls,
18
unwanted faxes and then complaints -- we also
19
separately tracked bundled VoIP complaints.
20
Again,
cable,
satellite,
21
broadcasting, programming and then unwanted
22
calls. It's not surprising that those are the

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issues that consumers are concerned about.
2
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, please.
3
MS. HERRERA: Hi, Mitsi Herrera,
4
Cable and Broadband Administrator from
5
Montgomery County.
6
The last time when Joel was still
7
heading, I think, the Bureau, if I recall right,
8
we had talked to you about in your reports you
9
report the top complaints for that quarter.
10
And that made it difficult to track between
11
quarters. And we had suggested that if you
12
instead reported all categories, then you would
13
have the data that you would be able to track.
14
So, one, I wanted to find out whether
15
you had implemented that recommendation or are
16
in the process of doing so?
17
And the second is I did want to ask
18
you specifically in the past when people had
19
called about cable service complaints, the
20
Commission had referred them to the local
21
jurisdictions,
the
local
franchising
22
authorities. So are you representing now that

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you handle those complaints?
2
MS. BOWERS: It's a difficult area.
3
Most of the complaints that we get are from
4
consumers who either have reception type issues
5
through the DTV transition or perhaps they have
6
lost channels.
7
And so what we try to do is refer
8
the consumer to the local franchising authority.
9
Now, we have had consumers complain that the
10
local franchising authority hasn't been
11
helpful. They haven't been able to get in
12
contact with them. So we do what we can to
13
advocate on behalf of the consumer.
14
To the degree that we can, we try
15
to get the issue resolved, but we are not always
16
successful in that regard. But our first point
17
is to reach out to the local franchising
18
authority to resolve the issue.
19
MS. HERRERA: So one is in your
20
reporting, are you tracking or reporting the--
21
or maybe -- you are probably not, but it would
22
be helpful is that if you -- I'm not sure where

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they fall within complaints or inquiries where
2
the resolution is largely a referral to another
3
jurisdiction, tracking that would be useful so
4
you could understand the impact on resources.
5
The other issues is that there are
6
a minority of states, but it's significant,
7
about 17, who have moved to a state franchising
8
model for cable. And one of the concerns has
9
been that that gutted the resources at the local
10
level to address those complaints.
11
It is very hard to move resources
12
into addressing those if we are hiding the
13
problem by not reporting back that in North
14
Dakota we had 950 complaints that we referred
15
back. And in California, we had 25,000 or
16
whatever it may be.
17
So I'm just suggesting to you that
18
doing that, and there are folks in this room
19
from the Intergovernmental Relations Committee
20
and they can sort of be a good liaison for that
21
as well, but it is very difficult if you don't
22
report the data out.

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CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Very good.
2
MS. BRODERSON: Well, and that's
3
something I sat in on the Consumer Complaint
4
Section of the IAC meeting yesterday and that
5
was one of the suggestions that was raised, one
6
of the comments that was made was that
7
strengthening the feedback between the
8
Commission and states would be really helpful.
9
So I think that's something that definitely
10
is on our radar.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: So we are going to
12
take a quick break from our presentation. Am
13
I on? Okay. Because we are so fortunate to
14
have Commissioner Clyburn with us this morning.
15
And I will get right back or we will get right
16
back to your great presentation. So sorry.
17
Thank you for being so flexible here.
18
Thank you, Commissioner Clyburn,
19
for joining us this morning. You have been so
20
kind to come and address us before and we are
21
thrilled to have you here this morning. So
22
thank you.

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COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Thank you so
2
much for being kind to taking a pause. I know
3
you are all very busy and I want to thank you
4
for your willingness to serve and taking the
5
time to be here. Once again, I always have to
6
extend my heartfelt gratitude to Debbie Berlyn,
7
who is one of my favorite people on the planet,
8
but other than that, I want to thank her for
9
her stewardship for this -- for chairing this
10
critically important Committee.
11
I also wish to thank, and she may
12
be in the room, but if not, please, allow --
13
tell her that I did, Kris Monteith that all of
14
the superstars in the Consumer and Government
15
Affairs Bureau who are on the front lines
16
engaging with the public about what we are doing
17
right and yes, what we are doing wrong. And
18
where and if our industry friends may be falling
19
short.
20
Speaking of friends, I am pleased
21
to count Karen Peltz Strauss as one of them.
22
Her voice is invaluable here at the FCC and those

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long hours and hard work on the implementation
2
or CVAA have been a major win for the disability
3
community and for us all. So thank you so very
4
much.
5
The
implementation
of
the
6
Communications and video Accessibility Act is
7
a high priority for both the Commission and my
8
office. It is essential that more than 54
9
million Americans who are living with
10
disabilities have the same level of access to
11
advanced communication services as other
12
Americans.
13
To that end, there are two
14
initiatives that come into effect next month
15
that I'm especially pleased to highlight this
16
morning. Starting July 1st, as you know, the
17
big four broadcast networks, ABC, CBS, FOX and
18
NBC, as well as the top five rated cable networks
19
will be required to provide audio descriptions
20
of some of their popular programming for blind
21
or sight-impaired viewers.
22
This technology can be described as

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a sort of narration that will accompany the
2
pre-recorded dialogue and it will illustrate
3
on-screen action for popular comedies, dramas
4
and children's programming.
5
These regulations may escalate over
6
time in terms of the number of required stations
7
and hours.
8
Also set to launch next month is the
9
National Deaf/Blind Equipment Distribution
10
Program. This program provides up to $10
11
million per year for the local distribution of
12
communications
equipment
to
low-income
13
individuals who are deaf/blind.
14
The first phase of this program
15
national outreach will begin next month and will
16
be conducted by the Perkins School for the Blind
17
in partnership with the Helen Keller National
18
Center for deaf/blind youths and adults and
19
FableVision, Inc.
20
Both Perkins and the Helen Keller
21
National Center are doing a great job to serve
22
the needs of millions of Americans who live with

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disabilities and will get the information about
2
this program out to consumers and service
3
providers.
4
These are two solid ways that the
5
Commission is working to address the
6
communications needs of the community and I have
7
no doubt that the Committee will come up with
8
many more creative ways for the FCC to do more.
9
We have been busy in other areas as
10
well. The Commission adopted reforms to the
11
Universal Service Fund, you might have heard
12
about that, updating the fund to meet modern-day
13
realities and putting it on a more sustainable
14
path going forward.
15
Mobile service uses has exploded and
16
broadband access is a key gateway by which many
17
Americans obtain critical information and
18
services.
19
So the Universal Service Fund needed
20
to be updated to reflect these current
21
realities. The reforms we adopted this past
22
October will promote significant broadband

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deployment to millions of unserved consumers
2
over the next six years.
3
What is most important to me is that
4
our reform carefully balances the need for
5
certainty and predictability for carriers by
6
avoiding flash cuts and providing transition
7
so carriers may adjust to the changes.
8
It is no secret that I have a deep
9
connection to rural America and I believe that
10
these reforms will allow us to come even closer
11
to achieving Congress' goal of providing all
12
Americans access to affordable voice and
13
advanced communication services.
14
I recognize, however, that current
15
efforts to modernize the fund may not resolve
16
all of the issues that were raised in the
17
proceeding. So this Agency continues to work
18
very hard to hear everyone's concerns and
19
address them in a timely fashion.
20
At all times, we have had an open
21
door policy and we have worked diligently
22
towards resolutions that benefits consumers and

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help us achieve our Universal Service goals.
2
I wish to mention one final thing.
3
This April, the Commission adopted rules to
4
protect Americans from telephone Cramming.
5
Many consumers fail to realize when there are
6
unauthorized charges on their bills, so these
7
charges often go undetected for months or even
8
years.
9
Our new rules strengthen the
10
Commission's
disclosure
requirements
on
11
telephone companies, so that consumers will have
12
an easier time spotting Crammers. This is an
13
ongoing process, however, and much more can be
14
done to protect consumers.
15
If there are any additional ways to
16
empower consumers to prevent Cramming, we want
17
to hear about them. So the comment period in
18
this proceeding will remain open until June 25th.
19
And I encourage you and all others interested
20
to participate.
21
So, Debbie and the Committee, thank
22
you once again for your unselfish commitment

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to public service. And I am grateful to be a
2
partner and remaining engaged with you as we
3
make this communications and media marketplace
4
more inclusive.
5
Thank you so very much.
6
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. Thank
7
you very much. We have time for a question.
8
Yes?
9
COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Hello.
10
Good morning.
11
MS. WALT: Dorothy Walt speaking
12
from the Helen Keller National Center. I would
13
like to applaud FCC for all of the efforts on
14
behalf of people with disabilities.
15
I'm curious as many of the things
16
are happening right now are doing work with some
17
of the people with some specific kinds of
18
disability, but I know that a lot of these things
19
that are happening does not have anything
20
available for people who are hard of hearing,
21
deaf and very low vision.
22
Don't we -- cannot benefit from

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interpreting services. Many of the senior
2
citizens and many other people who are deaf/
3
blind, who are low vision and deaf or hard of
4
hearing, put large captions when you talk about
5
TV programs being captioned, where they will
6
be able to have the capability of making them
7
large print, so that people can read them.
8
Those kinds of things have not been
9
addressed, not that I know of. Maybe I missed
10
it. I just wanted to bring this up for
11
everyone's attention. Thank you very much.
12
COMMISSIONER
CLYBURN:

I
13
appreciate you so much. Very nice to meet you,
14
number one. I appreciate so much you affirming
15
some of the challenges. And in terms of the
16
communities in which their might be multiple
17
challenges, I assure you that there is more
18
enhanced attention. I think I mentioned it a
19
few moments ago, again, to those challenges and
20
we are constantly engaged and are being more
21
affirmative in that end.
22
So I think you will see over the

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coming months and years that what you might --
2
what have been disconnects to that end, I think
3
you will be increasingly pleased over the next
4
few months that those issues with person with,
5
again, more enhanced challenges will be
6
addressed.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone on the
8
phone have a question? Okay. Thank you very
9
much, Commissioner Clyburn.
10
COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Thank you.
11
I appreciate it.
12
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you for
13
coming.
14
COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: And I
15
appreciate your engagement and your willingness
16
to work with us and both challenge us on the
17
issues we all care about.
18
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you very much.
19
COMMISSIONER CLYBURN: Thank you.
20
(Applause)
21
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you.
22
Deborah and Sharon, so back to your

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presentation.
2
MS. BRODERSON: Thank you very
3
much. Okay. I just wanted to follow-up. I
4
don't think we answered both parts of the last
5
question about the discussions that had happened
6
about releasing all of the complaint categories.
7
I think that is discussions that had
8
happened about releasing all of the complaint
9
categories. I think that is something that
10
might have left -- I think that's something that
11
Joel was invested in. Joel left the Bureau and
12
I think it might have dropped off our radar,
13
so it's something that we will bring back and
14
talk to Kris about, because I know it's not
15
something that have been in discussions lately,
16
so I appreciate you bringing that back up to
17
our attention.
18
MS. BOWERS: As we start our process
19
of reviewing the Complaint and Inquiry Reform,
20
some of the objectives that we are trying to
21
overcome is we want to improve our Consumer Web
22
Interface. And if you are familiar with our

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website, you can click on the tool bar in front
2
and you can comment or you can complain.
3
Once you click on complain, it takes
4
you to two navigation screens that depending
5
on how a consumer answers a specific question,
6
it leads them to a series of forms.
7
Now, Deborah and I have been here
8
a long time and we know how to complain about
9
things, because we have been here a long time.
10
But how does the average consumer complain?
11
I make it a personal note to check
12
my wireless bill every month to make sure there
13
is no Cramming on there, that they are not
14
charging me the .99 cent data charge. And how
15
do consumers complain? How do we educate them
16
and how do we get that complaint data captured
17
and going in the right direction?
18
So we want to look at how we intake
19
the data. We also want to ensure consistency.
20
We have -- I have a group of staff in Gettysburg,
21
Pennsylvania, 30 CAMS, Consumer Advocacy and
22
Mediation Specialist, and then I have a group

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here in D.C.
2
And one of the challenges that we
3
have is a lot of the complaints are subjective.
4
And Deborah and I could code a complaint. She
5
could code it one way and I could code it another.
6
So a way that we have looked at this
7
is to reach out to this group and ask you how
8
consumers are complaining. What terms mean
9
something to a consumer and then to specialize
10
our staff into that specific subject matter,
11
so that we can catch some of these spikes.
12
This will also help us improve the
13
accuracy of our coding and of the data that is
14
coming through and help us to better enhance
15
the information that we provide to the bureaus
16
for regulatory activities.
17
MS. BRODERSON: I think Sharon
18
already mentioned some of the challenges that
19
we face. And you can probably imagine some of
20
them as well, if you have ever filed a complaint
21
with us. Maybe you have some other challenges
22
you would like to bring to our attention.

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A complaint that we hear fairly
2
often is that the Consumer Interface can be kind
3
of complicated or maybe you know exactly what
4
you want and you have a pretty sophisticated
5
understanding of what you are complaining about,
6
but that category isn't really on our website.
7
And, you know, that's something that we are
8
working on.
9
As anyone who works in telecom
10
knows, the issues change overnight. New
11
technologies develop. You can't always update
12
our website in time to capture new issues. So
13
that's something we are definitely working on
14
ways to make the complaint categories general
15
enough to capture everything, but specific
16
enough that it helps us, because if everyone
17
just files a complaint, then we have to read
18
all of them manually.
19
And also, we know that we tend --
20
we can use jargons. Sometimes the terminology
21
doesn't make any sense. I mean, wire-line makes
22
sense to us. I don't know how much sense it

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makes to a lot of consumers. So that's a
2
struggle.
3
MS. KARMARKAR: On the coding issue
4
that you were just raising? Oh, sorry, Radhika
5
Karmarkar from New York City. And I just was
6
on the coding issue that Sharon was raising.
7
One thing that I know we are trying
8
to figure out is that we do get complaints about
9
sort of broadband or triple play and we are
10
trying to figure out how much of those things
11
are kind of falling through the cracks because
12
of sort of uncertainty in that area.
13
And it would be useful to get a feel
14
of when those issues come into -- I noticed that
15
the category was sort of broadband/VoIP, but
16
what is the question? Is it a billing question?
17
Are they confused about what plan they signed
18
up for? Is it a service question? The Internet
19
is going out too frequently or it is not at the
20
-- I mean, I know there are separate things being
21
done at the FCC on speeds and so on, but just
22
that type.

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And then I would also reiterate with
2
Mitsi that just the regional or the
3
state-by-state or whatever area breakdowns.
4
MS. BOWERS: Great. Good points,
5
good points.
6
CHAIR BERLYN: Scott has a
7
question.
8
MR. BERGMANN: Actually, I wanted
9
to thank you guys. We are really pleased that
10
you all are taking a look at these issues and
11
the coding questions as well, too. We are
12
certainly --
13
CHAIR BERLYN: Identify yourself.
14
MR. BERGMANN: Oh, thanks, Deb.
15
Scott Bergmann with CTIA. I just wanted to say
16
thank you to you all for undertaking this review
17
of how the complaints come in, how they are
18
coded. We are very interested in that as well,
19
too, because, you know, we are interested in
20
feedback.
21
And, you know, one of the things I
22
noticed is that when you put up the top

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complaints, the one for wireless was TCPA. And
2
so that's always very much of interest to our
3
industry, because, interestingly enough, those
4
complaints are really about unwanted calls and
5
tax from third-party marketers as opposed to
6
from wireless providers.
7
So when you look at complaint in the
8
mobile space, that is by far the greatest area
9
of complaints. So having some additional
10
visibility into, you know, where customers are
11
actually having problems, I think, would
12
probably help the Commission in its policy
13
making efforts and in its enforcement efforts
14
to sort of know where to focus its resources.
15
So thank you guys for that and we
16
are happy to engage with you and help try to
17
be partners in that effort.
18
MS. BRODERSON: Well, and I think
19
there are different models for transparency in
20
our consumer reports, our quarterly reports.
21
And I think just the kind of data analysis that
22
we are hoping to increase, it sounds like would

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be of help to almost everyone in the room and
2
I think to the Commission as well, so that's
3
definitely something that we would love to work
4
towards.
5
MS.
BOWERS:

Some
internal
6
solutions that we have been looking at is to,
7
first, start coordinating with the bureaus.
8
I mean, we have our contacts with the bureaus,
9
but a really in depth look at what are the bureaus
10
needing to support their policy?
11
Review our category codes. As
12
Deborah had said earlier, some of our codes are
13
redundant. Some of them are legacy codes that
14
have been around for quite some time. And, as
15
we know, as wireless -- as the technology
16
advances, we are behind the times a bit.
17
So to review those category codes:
18
Redrafting the codes to ensure that
19
they are accurate, they are clear, clear to us
20
and clear to the consumer when they go to file
21
that complaint on-line.
22
Ensure that our CAMS, Consumer

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Advocacy and Mediation Specialist, have the
2
latest consumer guides that will coordinate with
3
the codes and the rest of what the FCC is doing,
4
so we are all speaking from one page.
5
And increasing the analysis of the
6
data.
7
And back to your question, we also
8
have subcategories of codes. So we probably
9
need to take a look at the subcats to make sure
10
that they make sense for how the codes are
11
captured to drill down to the billing or the
12
service issues as it relates to broadband or,
13
you know, other issues.
14
MS. BRODERSON: And one of the
15
challenges that we didn't mention, but again
16
that I think would be pretty obvious in this
17
room, is that consumers just don't always know
18
what their problem is, so, you know, Consumer
19
Complaint Reform only makes sense if you are
20
also reforming consumer education and that's
21
why we want to coordinate every time a new
22
consumer facing item come out of the Commission,

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we want to make sure that we have a consumer
2
guide ready to go, that we have the CAMS educated
3
to take calls, that we have our website updated,
4
so it's all part of the same process.
5
So this is the part where -- yes,
6
this is the part for you guys. And I think we
7
will be talking and working more with your
8
Chairperson on --
9
CHAIR BERLYN: Ken has a question.
10
MS. BRODERSON: Oh, please.
11
MR. McELDOWNEY: Hi. Before we got
12
--
13
CHAIR BERLYN: No, identify
14
yourself first.
15
MR. McELDOWNEY: Okay. Yes,
16
sorry. Ken McEldowney, Consumer Action.
17
Before we get to the codes and the fun stuff,
18
I guess I had a couple of questions.
19
One is that do
you track the
20
complaints by language?
21
MS. BRODERSON: That's a good
22
question. No.

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MR. McELDOWNEY: Okay. That's--
2
MS. BRODERSON: You mean, by
3
English, Spanish?
4
MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes.
5
MS. BRODERSON: Oh, what do we take
6
-- we intake in English and Spanish. Is that
7
right, Sharon?
8
MS. BOWERS: Yes, we do. We do
9
intake English and Spanish and sign language.
10
MR. McELDOWNEY: No. I guess my
11
question goes to -- what? Yes, my question goes
12
beyond that.
13
Certainly, I -- you know, I'm with
14
Consumer Action and we handle complaints in
15
English, Spanish, Cantonese and Mandarin. But
16
more importantly, I think we track the
17
complaints by language. And I think if you are
18
not tracking complaints by language, you are
19
going to end up not knowing at all in terms of
20
whether or not you are adequately reaching those
21
populations.
22
So, for example, we had a very major

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cell phone scam that was being pushed in the
2
San Francisco/Chinatown and also in the
3
Vietnamese in San Jose. You know, you can't
4
get that information unless not only do you
5
handle information in those languages, but also
6
track them by a language.
7
The second thing is the you -- on
8
your website is the complaint form available
9
in Spanish?
10
MS. BRODERSON: Yes, it is.
11
MR. McELDOWNEY: Okay. Good.
12
MS. BOWERS: Those are good
13
suggestions.
14
MS. BRODERSON: And we do translate
15
our consumer guides. They are all translated.
16
They are all available in English and
17
translated into Spanish. And some of the most
18
consumer-specific guides, we translate into
19
other languages. So we have for the Digital
20
Television transition, we had I don't know how
21
many languages, 10? I don't know. I had a big
22
sheet of them, I know I remember.

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So but I think that's an excellent
2
point for the interim discussion.
3
All right. So we were at the fun
4
stuff. I think we will be working with your
5
Chairperson on the sort of specifics of this.
6
We wanted to highlight the things that we think
7
the CAC would be really helpful for. And we
8
also have sort of general suggestions to throw
9
out to the IAC as well, so for those of you in
10
the room.
11
So we mentioned our Complaint Codes.
12
We have codes when consumers call in, the CAMS
13
categorize the complaints and the inquiries.
14
A lot of them are so specific, so technical that
15
the chance that a consumer is going to call up
16
and complain about this is very slim.
17
So we would really like to think of
18
-- to present brainstorms a key word. You are
19
a consumer and you have this kind of problem,
20
give you a description of the problem. How
21
would you describe it? What kind of words would
22
you use? That would be really helpful.

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It seems like something we should
2
be able to do, but we just haven't really done
3
that well on that.
4
Also, testing our on-line complaint
5
system. I know some of you have already
6
mentioned this and I heard in the IAC yesterday
7
about our on-line system. And I hear from
8
friends, you know, my aunt wanted to file a
9
complaint about something and she couldn't
10
figure out how to do it on your website.
11
So practice filing a complaint up
12
to the point where you actually file a complaint,
13
ideally. You know, are our forms clear? Do
14
you have extra information and there is nowhere
15
to put it? Are you just not able to find the
16
right category? Should we have a more generic
17
category? Would that be helpful?
18
All of -- those are the kinds of sort
19
of beta testing issues that we would love the
20
CACs help with.
21
And the IVR, Sharon, do you want to
22
talk about the IVR?

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MS. BOWERS: Yes. The IVR is the
2
voice that you hear when you call 888-CALL-FCC.
3
You might hear my voice. You might hear a CAMS
4
that works for me, their voice. You might hear
5
Deborah's voice. We are not really sure whose
6
voice is all through the IVR, that's our point.
7
We need help with the content on the IVR and
8
the quality of the IVR.
9
And we just recently moved our
10
Gettysburg office to VoIP and we have some
11
enhancements that we can make to the IVR, but
12
we would like to know what makes sense to a
13
consumer.
14
And we have all called IVRs. We
15
have all had experiences good or bad. And we
16
would like to know what suggestions you might
17
have. And what we are looking at is, first of
18
all, some times the IVR doesn't help. You
19
really do need to speak to someone. And we are
20
ready to speak to consumers who need our
21
assistance, but then there is times that you--
22
we are all busy. You don't really need to speak

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with someone, you just need an address.
2
But we would like to know how easy
3
is it to get to a person? We would also like
4
to know if the options make sense on our IVR?
5
Are they clear? Are you pushing the right
6
button and getting to where you think you need
7
to be to get the question answered?
8
We also have the Universal Licensing
9
System, which handles all of our licensing
10
questions. So many times folks who have a
11
licensing question end up in our shop and our
12
stuff ends up in their shop. And we would like
13
to know how we can better communicate that to
14
consumers.
15
Is the language plain? Again, no
16
industry terms. Is it -- are we really advising
17
folks properly on how to get to where they need
18
to be to get their question answered. Of
19
course, our voice recordings, a lot of the
20
records are dubs. We really don't have a
21
professional voice. I'm about as professional
22
as it comes, so that's scary.

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But, you know, it's dub overs and
2
retakes and, you know, let us know where we need
3
to make some real improvements there.
4
And then if we had money, I don't
5
know, Kris, do we have money? If we had money
6
to make some changes to our IVR, what one thing
7
could we do that would really be meaningful to
8
a consumer contacting -- calling through our
9
IVR? Would it be a touch pad where they could
10
check on the status of a complaint? Would it
11
be an interactive voice where they actually talk
12
through and it leads them through?
13
What technology could we put on the
14
IVR that would really be meaningful and be
15
helpful? So that's what we are looking at for
16
IVR projects.
17
MS. BRODERSON: And I know we are
18
almost out of time. For the IAC, for those of
19
you in the room, I think sitting in your consumer
20
complaint session yesterday, what struck me was
21
that the -- we could definitely improve the path
22
for communication between the Commission and

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the states, local governments, local entities,
2
especially the referral process which came up
3
again today.
4
So I think that working with us to
5
determine best practices for that kind of
6
improving
that
communication
enhancing,
7
reporting back to the states on complaints on
8
a state-by-state basis, definitely is something
9
that we would love to talk to the IAC.
10
And to the extent that the CAC has
11
input in that as well, absolutely. So I think
12
that's our presentation. I think we have had
13
-- if we have time for questions, I would defer.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Yes, we
15
will start with questions. We anticipate
16
Commissioner Pai's arrival, but we have some
17
time for questions. So if you could -- oh, i
18
see numerous. Oh, everybody has been busy
19
raising cards. And, Paul, put your card up.
20
Don't just -- yes. So all right. I'll remember
21
that you are putting your card up. I'll try
22
and remember that.

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I have no idea what order people did
2
this in, so I'm just going to start on this side
3
of the room. Mary, then Paul, because I just
4
saw Paul's go up, so Mary, then Paul and then
5
I'll continue down around the room. So Mary?
6
MS. CRESPY: Hi. I'm Mary Crespy
7
with Verizon. It's good to see you, Sharon.
8
MS. BOWERS: Good to see you.
9
MS. CRESPY: Since you asked about
10
the website, there is one issue, unfortunately,
11
that is an increasing problem for our -- for
12
customers of wireless services and that is text
13
spam.
14
And
as
a
consumer
I
get,
15
unfortunately, text spam and I know what to do.
16
So I went to the FCC's website to complain.
17
It is not easy to -- it is not an easy category.
18
You think it would be, but it's not.
19
If you go into the Telemarketing
20
Complaint Section, it says that is where you
21
put in text spam, but once you go in there, there
22
is no place for text spam. It's all about calls

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to your landline. And then if you go into the
2
Wireless Section, there is complaints for calls
3
and for emails and other things, but no text
4
spam.
5
And since it is an increasing
6
problem, I think you might really want to zero
7
in on that and make it very easy to complain,
8
so you can really gather information on what
9
a growing problem this has become.
10
CHAIR BERLYN: And just to let
11
everybody know before we go into the Q&A session,
12
we are going to be talking later about how we
13
are going to participate in giving the FCC
14
feedback. So we are going to have a process
15
for this, so just to let you know that. Paul?
16
MR. SCHROEDER: Thank you. Paul
17
Schroeder with the American Foundation for the
18
Blind. A couple things. One is I think the
19
disability community definitely wants to give
20
you feedback on the website and we need to do
21
it in a structured way, so, Deborah, thanks for
22
your comment on that already.

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On complaints, I want to -- this
2
question started to be asked, but I want to try
3
to understand it better. A couple of things.
4
One is there is, as our person from New York
5
pointed out, a load of things that come under,
6
I'm sure broadcast programming, cable satellite
7
programming as major complaint items, VoIP
8
bundling.
9
Are most of the programming-related
10
items, do they relate to missing channels,
11
missing programs, indecency? You know, I'm
12
just mad because why the heck did they put Dallas
13
on again? I mean, it was a terrible show to
14
start with. I don't know. I mean, what are
15
-- I mean, and it kind of leads to my question,
16
which is how -- to what percent of the complaints
17
are actually remediable or actionable that you
18
got that can actually be acted upon?
19
And then I guess the third thing and
20
it kind of gets back to using the data, what
21
can be done? 90,000 complaints in a quarter
22
seems like a lot. And if a high percentage of

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those are actionable, what can be done to push
2
policies that potentially regulatory action of
3
the Commission that might actually lead to fewer
4
complaints needing to be lodged. Is that
5
something that you are looking at?
6
MS. BOWERS: Well, first of all,
7
Paul, everything that you mentioned, Major
8
League Baseball, I think, was -- is it on,
9
because I'm not sure? Can you hear me? Oh,
10
I'm not close enough. Okay.
11
Everything that you mentioned is the
12
types of complaints that we see. I think you
13
missed out Major League Baseball, they can't
14
get their channel for that. And for the most
15
part, what the CAMS try to do is advocate the
16
issue. Try to resolve the issue.
17
And we are limited as to what we can
18
do. That's -- I can't begin to tell you enough
19
about the CAMS that sit on the front line to
20
take the calls and deal with the complaints,
21
because we are limited in how we can resolve
22
some of these issues.

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And for the most part, I think we
2
are able to handle the individual complaint to
3
the degree that the consumer leaves somewhat
4
satisfied or at least knowing, you know, here
5
are your options to try to resolve the issue.
6
Did you want to take the question on future?
7
MS. BRODERSON: Well, I think the
8
point you raised, I think your third point, about
9
how we can address these issues, we have this
10
high volume of complaints, that's exactly why
11
we are trying to improve our data analysis to
12
help inform the kind of regulatory action the
13
Commission could take or not necessarily
14
regulatory actions, just cooperation with
15
industry to see what we can do to address these
16
consumer concerns.
17
I mean, you asked what percentage
18
were remediable, you know. I don't know. We
19
don't have statistics on that necessarily,
20
because, you know, I mean, some of that it's
21
kind of subjective, but we certainly do our best
22
to address -- either address each issue with

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a consumer or refer it to an entity, the FTC
2
or a state PUC who can.
3
So, yes, we don't have any hard and
4
fast stats on that part.
5
CHAIR BERLYN: So I'm going to --
6
if you don't mind, we have so many questions,
7
we are going to get back to questions for just
8
a bit, but I am going to ask if folks could hold
9
and I'm going to ask Commissioner Pai to come
10
to the table.
11
It is my pleasure to introduce
12
Commissioner Pai, who is the other new arrival
13
to the Commission. And it's a pleasure to have
14
you here today. You are also not a real stranger
15
to the FCC. You served as a staff member in
16
the Office of the General Counsel for several
17
years at the FCC. And I hope that you will be
18
a frequent visitor to the Consumer Advisory
19
Committee. It's a pleasure to have you here
20
today and welcome.
21
COMMISSIONER PAI: Well, thank you.
22
Thank you very much, Chairperson Berlyn. I

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appreciate the introduction. And thanks to all
2
of you as well for taking time out of your meeting
3
to accommodate me.
4
I just wanted to say hello and
5
introduce myself. I am Ajit Pai. I have got
6
all of four weeks of tenure now at the
7
Commission, so I feel like a grizzled veteran,
8
at this point, of the communications wars.
9
But no, seriously, it has been a
10
fantastic reintroduction to the Commission.
11
I love this Agency. I love the work that we
12
do and I love this industry. And I think it
13
is such a privilege to be able to serve in this
14
capacity.
15
I also wanted to thank you for the
16
work that you are doing on the Committee. I
17
think a lot of the times people, when they think
18
about the FCC, at least people within this
19
building, they would think about products and
20
services and devices and equipment, but none
21
of that really means anything until the rubber
22
meets the road and the road is the consumer.

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And so, you know, the question is
2
is the industry, is the Commission doing
3
everything it can to make the communication
4
services and products that we all enjoy work
5
for the consumer?
6
And so to that extent, your input
7
is extremely valuable. I think the
8
Commission's decision making is just enriched
9
by having a variety of perspectives on these
10
issues. And I know that, from my own personal
11
experiences as I was explaining yesterday to
12
another committee, people have
a lot of
13
complaints about communications.
14
And I have now become a more frequent
15
recipient of such complaints, even from my own
16
family. So I know that, you know, there is a
17
lot of interest in making the industry work
18
better for consumers.
19
And so to the extent that I can play
20
any role in, you know, helping consumers have
21
a better experience, that's something that is
22
certainly a priority for me. And I don't have

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anything beyond that other than to say, you know,
2
it's good to be here and if you have any
3
questions, comments, I would be happy to field
4
them.
5
CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone have a
6
quick question for the Commissioner? I know
7
you have your cards up for the other questions,
8
but you could raise your hand for this one if
9
you have a question.
10
Mitsi has a question.
11
MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera, Cable
12
and Broadband Administrator from Montgomery
13
County. Welcome. Thanks for coming to see us.
14
I was just curious, is there one particular
15
issue that is close to your heart or that you
16
are looking to focus on?
17
COMMISSIONER PAI: I feel like I'm
18
sort of a jack-of-all-trades. I love, you know,
19
the full pamphlet of issues within the
20
Commission's jurisdiction. Some of the more--
21
the bigger priorities, I guess, I would say is
22
a Spectrum policy writ-large. I
mean,

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obviously, Congress has just given us incentive
2
option authority and that's going to consume
3
a lot of the Commission's time over the coming
4
months and years.
5
But also to other Spectrum policies,
6
you know, working with the Federal Government
7
to relinquish or share Spectrum. Identifying
8
other bands that can be either allocated more
9
efficiently or can be used more efficiently,
10
you know, on Tuesdays or Wednesday, I guess,
11
it was that we voted on a 4.9 gigahertz item
12
to improve the use of the band, which hasn't
13
been used as much as we thought it would have
14
back in 1999 and 2002.
15
So really trying to get more
16
Spectrum out into the marketplace. And I think
17
the reason is that the Spectrum shortage
18
ultimately re-downs to the detriment of
19
consumers. If there is not as much Spectrum,
20
then carriers feel like they have to impose even
21
more stringent policies in terms of voice and
22
data use or increased prices.

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And ultimately, like I was saying
2
in my initial comments, where the rubber meets
3
the road is the consumer is not going to have,
4
you know, the same level or quality of service
5
that he or she might have enjoyed previously.
6
So Spectrum policy, I think, is the
7
biggest thing on our plate right now. I guess
8
the only other -- there are a bunch of other
9
areas within which the Commission is working
10
on, but one of the other priorities, I guess,
11
that our office has is trying to get to the
12
Commission to be a little more nimble in terms
13
of keeping pace with the marketplace and
14
technological innovation.
15
I have been struggling the last
16
several weeks by how many companies across a
17
variety of different communications industries
18
have said that, you know, they are waiting for
19
Commission action on X or Y. And regardless
20
of what the action is, it would just be nice
21
to have some certainty there.
22
And so to the extent that our office

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can play a role in these issues, we would like
2
to bring a sense of, you now, vigor and dispatch
3
to the Agency's decision making in order to
4
benefit, you know, not just the industry, but
5
ultimately consumers.
6
MS. HERRERA: Okay. If I could
7
just quickly say, that's great to hear. And
8
I would just encourage you to look not only at
9
that, but also within the FCC and your current
10
roles.
11
COMMISSIONER PAI: Yes.
12
MS. HERRERA: You have customer
13
service regulations that you have not updated
14
since they were first enacted in '92 and where
15
you are limited in what you can enforce, you
16
yourself wrote the rules and your lack of
17
updating them inhibits the services you can
18
provide.
19
Your cable standards are still
20
analog, not digital.
21
COMMISSIONER PAI: Yes.
22
MS. HERRERA: We have a petition

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that has been pending on the AT&T that has been
2
sitting out there for three years, so we would
3
be happy to let -- do that, but I would just
4
sort of encourage you. There is a long list
5
of stuff that you have got in-house that probably
6
is in some work process.
7
COMMISSIONER PAI: Yes.
8
MS. HERRERA: And so giving it a
9
kickstart may be what you need and you could
10
probably knock them out pretty quick.
11
COMMISSIONER PAI: Absolutely.
12
Please, do let us know. I mean, don't -- we
13
have an open door policy in our office and we
14
welcome, you know, if there are specific docket
15
numbers or proceedings that you want us to take
16
a look at, do let us know, because we have already
17
taken action on a few things.
18
And my previous iteration of the
19
general counsel's office, I was always amazed
20
that there are some proceedings that had been
21
lingering for a couple of decades, in some cases
22
without action. So if I have anything to say

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about it, that won't continue to be the case.
2
CHAIR BERLYN: Well, thank you so
3
much, Commissioner, for giving us your time.
4
And we look forward to seeing you again.
5
COMMISSIONER PAI: Thanks.
6
CHAIR BERLYN: So thank you very
7
much.
8
COMMISSIONER PAI: Thanks for
9
having me. Appreciate it.
10
(Applause)
11
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So we are
12
talking here. We have so many questions, so
13
many questions, so little time. And that just
14
seems to always happen. But I don't -- this
15
is so important and we do want to figure out--
16
we have our own process where we are going to
17
be helping you with this, so we need to be
18
well-informed.
19
We also need to take a break and we
20
have a panel coming up. I'm wondering, Scott,
21
if when we -- we probably do have time in the
22
afternoon to -- we will be talking about this

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process. And I'm wondering if Deborah and
2
Sharon might be willing to come back when we
3
are talking about our process, if there is some
4
time, when we might be able to continue this
5
discussion with questions.
6
And maybe during our -- why don't
7
we take a five minute break now and we will figure
8
this out, because I don't -- we don't want to
9
lose your questions in this process, because
10
this is so important.
11
So let's see if we can figure that
12
out. Let's take a five or maybe -- let's be
13
realistic. Let's take a 10 minute break, but,
14
please, be back. Thank you.
15
(Whereupon, at 10:45 a.m. a recess
16
until 11:03 a.m.)
17
CHAIR BERLYN: So just to let you
18
all know, what we are going to do with our
19
schedule is that I've got Sharon and Deborah
20
are going to come back at 11:50. And we are
21
going to carve a little bit of time out of the
22
Spectrum session at 11:50 and start our Spectrum

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session after -- we will have about 15 minutes
2
for questions with Sharon and Deborah.
3
Then we will start out Spectrum
4
session and slide our lunch -- we will see how
5
much time we need for the Spectrum session.
6
We have probably a little bit more time on the
7
Spectrum session than we might need. We will
8
see. But then we will see if we get back on
9
schedule or not, but we can slide a little into
10
the lunch if we need to.
11
So we will have them back at 11:50,
12
just to let you know.
13
So we have a panel here. Before I
14
introduce our panel, I know a number of people
15
came in a little late this morning, so now is
16
an opportunity to point out who you are and have
17
you introduce yourselves to the group very
18
quickly. Just say your name and identify who
19
you are with.
20
So let's go around the room. If you
21
didn't get a chance to introduce yourselves this
22
morning, please, do so now.

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MR. SCHROEDER: Okay. Well, I'm
2
one of them, Paul Schroeder, American Foundation
3
for the Blind. I've been on time every other
4
meeting though.
5
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.
6
MR. ACQUARD: Charlie Acquard,
7
National Association of State Utility Consumer
8
Advocates.
9
CHAIR BERLYN: And make sure you
10
raise your hand, because -- and give it a second,
11
because the booth sometimes doesn't see you and
12
then we don't have it recorded. So say it again,
13
Charlie.
14
MR. ACQUARD: Charlie Acquard,
15
National Association --
16
CHAIR BERLYN: It's still not up.
17
MR. ACQUARD: Charlie Acquard,
18
National Association of State Utility Consumer
19
Advocates.
20
CHAIR BERLYN: There we go. Anyone
21
else on this side? Towards the back, anyone
22
in the back? Oh, wait, there.

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MR. BAKER: Chris Baker. Is it on?
2
Chris Baker with AARP.
3
MS. LEECH: Irene Leech.
4
CHAIR BERLYN: Got you.
5
MS. LEECH: With the Consumer
6
Federation of America.
7
MS. WEIN: Olivia Wein, National
8
Consumer Law Center.
9
MS. KEARNEY: Julie Kearney,
10
Consumer Electronics Association. And this is
11
like the walk of shame.
12
CHAIR BERLYN: I really didn't
13
intend that.
14
MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera, Cable
15
and Broadband Administrator from Montgomery
16
County. And I am in fine company.
17
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you
18
all. I just wanted to make sure that you were
19
recognized.
20
Okay. So now, we are really
21
fortunate. This is a topic, of course as you
22
all know, that is so important, the Broadband

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Adoption issue. And our Broadband Working
2
Group, Mark and Kris, our Working Group Chairs,
3
could also pipe in on this, but we have three
4
folks here: Cecilia who is a Member of our CAC,
5
of course, and two others who are joining us
6
to talk about Broadband Adoption.
7
I will very quickly introduce them.
8
Sitting right next to me, Elizabeth Crocker,
9
who is with the Foundation for Rural Services,
10
which is NTCA, National Telephone -- Telecom
11
Cooperative. It's no longer telephone. It
12
used to be telephone. Now, it's -- now,
13
everything is telecom. Telecommunications
14
Cooperative Association.
15
And sitting next to her is Thomas
16
Koutsky, Chief Policy Counsel, with Connection
17
Nation.
18
And our three panelists today are
19
going to give us some updates on Broadband
20
Adoption from various different perspectives.
21
And so we are really pleased to have them here
22
today. We didn't discuss an order for this,

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but I think it might be helpful to have Tom to
2
have you start us off, because I know you have
3
some stats and things like that for us.
4
MR. KOUTSKY: Okay. Sure, happy
5
to. And if you could call up -- I have a slide
6
presentation that is -- there we go. That was
7
simple. It's like magic.
8
MR. SCHROEDER: Debra, just
9
quickly, I apologize. I'm sorry, Paul
10
Schroeder with AFB. Tom, I could not open your
11
PowerPoint and it came late, in any event, so,
12
please, be sure to speak up -- speak out any
13
of the information that's on the screen that
14
needs to be communicated, because it's not going
15
to be accessible, at least to me and perhaps
16
others.
17
MR. KOUTSKY: Sure. I will do my
18
best and I will -- but to put a word of warning
19
on that, I have a bunch of slides that I have
20
pulled from different presentations that have
21
a lot of just adoption numbers. I don't intend
22
to speak to them all. I really just kind of

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wanted to illustrate. I'll do my best to
2
describe what I'm trying to -- the points I'm
3
trying to illustrate.
4
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.
5
MR. KOUTSKY: And then get you
6
another copy that you can open.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.
8
MR. KOUTSKY: Just, you know, I
9
would like to -- I'm really thankful and
10
appreciative of the invitation from Debbie and
11
the FCC to speak here today. You know, I used
12
to work at this -- actually, as we looked at
13
the
former
Commissioners
or
the
new
14
Commissioners, I used to work at this Agency
15
as well. I have had two stints at the FCC. Most
16
recently on the National Broadband Plant Team.
17
And so these are issues that I care very deeply
18
about.
19
And it is -- what is interesting
20
about my current job is that I'm able to kind
21
of go and study questions and issues related
22
to Broadband Adoption and the utilization that

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are facing America's communities.
2
And there was one really point about
3
--
I've been like a telecommunications
4
infrastructure guy, basically, for much of my
5
career working with a lot of start-up telephone
6
companies. And coming to the National
7
Broadband Team here at the FCC really made an
8
impression on me in terms of thinking about the
9
adoption and use challenge that this nation has.
10
I mean, we can kind of debate and
11
we spend -- oh, I don't even want to know how
12
much money we spend here, it's over $4 billion
13
a year on infrastructure subsidies to get
14
broadband out to rural areas. And that's
15
certainly needed in a lot of instances and in
16
a lot of cases.
17
But when we have an important
18
infrastructure that, you know, is absolutely
19
critical to economic growth and social
20
development and we have a third of the nation
21
not adopting it or using it, you know,
22
sufficiently, that's a significant economic

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drag upon our country's economic future and
2
social development.
3
And, you know, there are even some
4
instances, as I started in my current job, we
5
have worked basically with, I'll just kind of
6
fast-forward ahead in the slideshow, states and
7
local governments to help them understand the
8
broadband challenges that they face. We
9
operate through the NTIA, State Broadband
10
Initiative Grant Program. I have listed the
11
states and areas here.
12
And to really let communities and
13
states know about the challenges they face.
14
And so this, I think, is really important that
15
you are talking about Broadband Adoption from
16
the consumer perspective and from the adoption
17
perspective, because it's absolutely critical
18
that our country face these problems and that
19
this Agency face this problem in a realistic
20
problem-solving way, not a headline grabbing
21
way, but in terms of actually doing some tangible
22
-- getting some tangible results.

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This is -- again, these are some very
2
basic facts. You all hear this. If you read
3
enough speeches from FCC Commissioners, you get
4
all of these points eventually, so I'm not going
5
to dwell on them.
6
But the real important point is that
7
as long as we have a third of the country that
8
hasn't adopted broadband, two things happen.
9
First of all, this has a direct impact on the
10
case for future broadband investment and growth
11
in terms of the network side. You know, it's
12
very difficult to get constantly upgraded
13
networks if there is -- you know, if they are
14
not necessarily fully utilized, but also, the
15
economic and social development.
16
We have seen in recent years with
17
the economic difficulties in this country, a
18
definite flattening in the Broadband Adoption
19
curve. And this is -- you know, if there is
20
like one or two points you take away from one
21
another about the -- what to talk about, you
22
know, look at this graph on the right which

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really shows an adoption of broadband to
2
undertaking an S-curve pattern, where it starts
3
off very low and then it escalates beginning
4
in 2001/2002 rather sharply up to until it runs
5
across about 60 percent of the United States
6
households and then it flattens off.
7
It flattens off in 2009/2010 and
8
even starts to dip. And, you know, the dip is
9
actually really concerning, because it does
10
indicate that there is some, you know as an
11
economist would say, elasticity of demand for
12
broadband service.
13
At certain prices, you know, people
14
start to think twice about buying it and then
15
in economic difficulties, they start to think
16
twice, you know, they even start to think about
17
disconnecting it. so that flattening is
18
really, really important.
19
On the Broadband Plant Team, we have
20
built a lot of the design assumption. This is
21
actually called a Gompertz curve. There is a
22
phrase for this S-curve adoption and you see

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it for every technology, consumer technology
2
that has been put in place from color TVs to
3
VCRs to, you know, computers. They all follow
4
this S-curve type adoption. They all flatten
5
out in some way.
6
Now, for color TV, I think you could
7
probably argue that at around 95 percent of TVs,
8
you know, it's not that big of a deal. But for
9
broadband technology, if that S-curve flattens
10
out at 65 percent, we have a significant social
11
challenge and economic challenge in our country,
12
because that is one- third, you know, of
13
Americans that, you know, will not have the same
14
opportunities for their kids, will face it more
15
increasingly difficult to even do some things
16
such as accessing basic Government services.
17
There was an interesting set of
18
studies on how expensive it is to be poor in
19
this country. It is actually very expensive
20
to be poor, because if you are limited and if
21
you don't have a car and you're limited to the
22
neighborhood grocery store, you pay for more

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milk. And if you have to take half a day to
2
get your Social Security check processed and
3
wait in line, because you don't have on-line
4
access to do the same function, that costs you
5
money. That is time you had to put your kids,
6
you know, in child care or that you had to take
7
off of work.
8
Just a few slides and again, you
9
know, we're happy to talk about, you know,
10
certainly these numbers. Whenever I think
11
about when Debbie invited me to do this, I almost
12
instinctively, you know, moved towards thinking
13
about the adoption gap among the elderly,
14
because she is such a good advocate for the
15
groups that she has worked with, that they do
16
stick out.
17
So I have, you know, indulged her
18
with some statistics about, you know, difference
19
in adoption and ages. And I think the important
20
thing to see here from this slide are not the
21
numbers themselves, but to understand that there
22
are different reasons why people don't adopt

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broadband service. And they do vary by age and
2
demographic group.
3
What we see here is that for young
4
Americans or younger households, ages 18 to 54,
5
the largest barrier to entry is cost. These
6
numbers were actually demonstrated by or were
7
gathered through state surveys that Connected
8
Nation has done in our, you know, eight states
9
and we have kind of aggregated these up.
10
And we asked -- you know, these are
11
scientific surveys, calling up people and asking
12
them what's the main reason you don't buy
13
broadband and really kind of rationalizing this.
14
15
So for younger Americans age 18 to
16
54, you know, the predominant reason they don't
17
subscribe is cost. It's about 33 percent of
18
them cite that as a reason.
19
For older Americans, age 70 and
20
older, the predominant reason they don't
21
subscribe is relevance. I mean, it was stated,
22
you know, there is a lot of ways that they can

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state relevance. We kind of grouped them up
2
into relevance.
3
And then kind of in the middle is
4
digital literacy or a lack of digital skills.
5
You know, also it does vary by age. I think
6
this is important, because what it does -- you
7
know, this is a little bit more about senior
8
technology adoption to show that even within
9
the senior community, there are a fair -- there
10
is a wide range of demographic differences.
11
I mean, even -- I'll just point out
12
one, which is if all seniors over age 70-- the
13
Broadband Adoption rate is 30 percent. But of
14
seniors over 70 that live alone, the adoption
15
rate is 17 percent. These are the individuals
16
that would stand to gain the most by being
17
connected to the rest of the world and their
18
adoption rate is, basically, as low as you see
19
in just about any community.
20
And I think that's rather striking.
21
Again, this is one of the neat things about
22
my job is I get to tell the survey guys what

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to survey. And so --
2
MR. McELDOWNEY: Did you control
3
for cost?
4
MR. KOUTSKY: We did. Well, not--
5
in terms of control for cost? These are -- this
6
is not -- we do -- I do in another analysis,
7
but not on these slides. I have a different
8
analysis that tries to separate out using a
9
regression analysis. This is really just more
10
of a statement of adoption rates.
11
That is an interesting paper that
12
we are going to be releasing in a couple of weeks,
13
that's why I had to double check myself, because
14
I might have stolen the wrong slide.
15
This is barriers. This is a slide
16
that really kind of articulates some significant
17
barriers among the different demographic group,
18
which is low-income households with children.
19
And again, I think the reason this type of
20
research is important is because it tells us
21
what we need to do in terms of solutions.
22
We cannot have a one-size-fits-all.

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I'm going to skip ahead in the interest of time.
2
We need to have solutions that are targeted
3
towards bridging the specific gap that we are
4
trying to address. A solution that is aimed
5
at lowering the cost of Broadband Adoption is
6
going to work in some communities or in some
7
demographic groups potentially, such as
8
low-income households with kids, where,
9
frankly, those families don't need to be told
10
about the importance and relevance of broadband
11
to the future of their children.
12
I mean, families understand that.
13
So these are the families that are piling into
14
libraries, you know, constantly now, so students
15
can do their homework. So for them, cost is
16
the main barrier.
17
For a group like senior citizens or,
18
you know, other Americans, you know, a
19
similarly situated American, such as those that
20
live alone or other low-income families without
21
children, lack of digital skills, lack of
22
relevance are main barriers.

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To overcome this challenge, we need
2
to target the solutions based on the research
3
results. Then you need to execute it and then
4
you need to assess and analyze the success
5
stories.
6
A couple really things I want to
7
leave you with that are initiatives that are
8
happening right now, the FCC has proposed to
9
spend some portion of the Universal Service Fund
10
on digital literacy funding. This is an open
11
proceeding right now. You know, I filed
12
comments. There are things about the proposal
13
before the FCC that I would do differently than
14
the way they have done it.
15
I'm happy to talk more in detail
16
about it, but I do think this is an important
17
opening that the Commission has signaled to say
18
we think digital literacy or a lack of digital
19
skills is a barrier to Broadband Adoption and
20
we are proposing to use Universal Service Funds
21
to help bridge that gap.
22
I think, you know, as a group or as

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individual, you know, entities with a consumer
2
focus, I think that is something, a proceeding
3
you may want to think about getting involved
4
in, either as a CAC or as your individual groups,
5
because the FCC really could stand to hear a
6
lot of voices about the need for digital literacy
7
and training in that proceeding.
8
You can't really see this because
9
of the closed captioning, but another initiative
10
the Commission has going on right now is a
11
proposal to spend $25 million on a Broadband
12
Pilot Project for their low-income fund, the
13
Lifeline Fund.
14
Those of you that have been around
15
the circle for a while know that the Lifeline
16
Fund is a targeted Universal Service Fund of
17
over $2 billion a year that is targeted towards
18
low-income purchase -- low-income consumers who
19
purchase VoIP service.
20
The FCC launched a genuine -- we
21
heard a bit about this this morning, they
22
launched a genuine -- a general revamping of

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that program earlier in the year and have opened
2
the door to transforming that program into a
3
broadband support program.
4
These are pilots. This is a pilot
5
process that is basically going to take the next
6
year. The FCC has solicited applications from
7
service providers who are the recipients of
8
these funds. Those applications are due on July
9
2nd.
10
The idea behind the pilot is to come
11
up with measurable data as to what types of price
12
points would persuade low-income Americans to
13
buy broadband. There is a focus on price as
14
a barrier in this proceeding, which I know I
15
just said you wouldn't want to have a singular
16
focus. They have tried to build-in digital
17
literacy and other components into this program,
18
but they haven't proposed or subsidized that
19
in the context of a pilot.
20
So there are some problematic
21
aspects to the way the FCC has established the
22
pilot, but without getting into those details,

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that is something else for this group, I think,
2
would be interested in monitoring and
3
understanding where -- you know, what the
4
Commission does with the results of these
5
pilots.
6
I'm going to conclude really quickly
7
here and just kind of note that, you know,
8
honestly, this year is a critical year with
9
regard to the FCC's adoption programs and
10
initiatives.
11
There has been a lot of talk about
12
doing things. There has been a lot of ideas
13
floated around. There has been a lot of
14
discussion about adoption being an issue that
15
the Commission intends to really grab hold of.
16
They do deserve credit for the Lifeline Pilot
17
Program and for proposing digital literacy
18
training as part as USF.
19
But this coming year will be the year
20
where we will find out whether or not those
21
proposals will come to fruition and in what shape
22
and manner they form. You know, will we see

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the targeted -- you know, will we see the pilot
2
programs go to areas that need it? I skipped
3
over a couple slides, but one important fact
4
that came out recently was that the Territory
5
of Puerto Rico has a Broadband Adoption rate
6
of 31 percent.
7
The Territory of Puerto Rico is
8
larger than half of the states in the United
9
States in terms of population. If the State
10
of Delaware -- if we were looking and saw that
11
the State of Delaware had a 31 percent adoption
12
rate, while New Jersey had, you know, 85 percent
13
and Pennsylvania had 75 percent, you know,
14
honestly, the Chairman of the FCC would be
15
driving over to Dover to give speeches about
16
solving the Broadband Adoption gap in Delaware.
17
That's the situation in Puerto Rico
18
right now. 31 percent. That has a cascading
19
effect on the island. And so, you know, we will
20
see if there is -- you know, I'm hopeful that
21
some of these initiatives that have been
22
announced and that some of the programs that

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have been proposed will go to places like Puerto
2
Rico in a very targeted fashion.
3
Where, honestly, you know, in a way
4
when you are at 31 percent, it might even, you
5
know, be a little bit easier to show success
6
because it is clearly a significant problem for
7
the Territory and the Territory and the
8
Government is really trying to press forward
9
and come up with tangible solutions.
10
You know, and the other point is that
11
-- I think Cecilia can talk about this, but a
12
lot of the BTOP programs that were funded for
13
Broadband Adoption are going to start to wind
14
down next year. You know, some of the original
15
programs that were given funding in 2009 were
16
two or three year programs.
17
And, you know, what do we do with
18
those success stories? We're going to have to
19
figure out which ones were successful and, you
20
know, in this next year we are going to need
21
to decide whether we are going to wind those
22
down or not or whether we are going to reinvest

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1
in them.
2
And with that, I will turn it over
3
to the rest of the panel.
4
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. So,
5
Elizabeth?
6
MS. CROCKER: All right. I'm
7
Elizabeth Crocker, the Executive Director of
8
the Foundation for Rural Service. And as Debra
9
mentioned, we are the philanthropic arm of NTCA,
10
which represents rural telecom carriers all
11
across the country.
12
So we have about 600 rural telecom
13
companies that we work with and about 400
14
associate members who provide services to those
15
folks. And it has really been a very
16
interesting couple of years for us as well.
17
We really started the foundation as more
18
education-based and working with youth
19
primarily and that's definitely changed over
20
the past few years and we have really had to
21
branch out and now we are in a lot of different
22
areas.

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We have done a paper which I talked
2
to Debra quite a bit about on Aging in Place
3
and the role of broadband. We are working on
4
a Smart Agriculture Paper with the role of
5
broadband. We are just doing a lot of different
6
things and part of the reason we are doing them
7
is because our rural communities need so much
8
more right now.
9
I'm laughing as he is talking, I was
10
here two weeks ago with 100 teenagers from all
11
over rural America sitting in this room
12
listening to four of our Commissioners speak.
13
And one of the questions one of the
14
Commissioners asked was how many of you, we had
15
16, 17 year-olds, have helped your parents and
16
your grandparents learn how to get on the
17
Internet and pretty much every kid in the room
18
raised their hand.
19
So it's kind of fun to see that
20
statistic and then see it in reality as well.
21
The interesting thing about the
22
foundation, we do a lot of different things.

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We do build stuffers and mailers for our
2
telephone companies to educate the rural
3
customers, so we are working on Internet safety,
4
on-line safety. We just did one on
5
cyber-bullying.
6
We are going to do a mailer on Aging
7
in Place and they can get that information out
8
to their customers. We do White Papers. And
9
I brought our most recent one, because we have
10
been talking about it a lot and I would be happy
11
to give you a copy if you are interest on Aging
12
in Place and the opportunities that are out
13
there.
14
We are really trying to encourage
15
our
telephone
companies
and
our
16
telecommunication companies to see the
17
potential in these opportunities, because if
18
they can get out in their community and provide
19
these services, the community is stronger, they
20
have a larger customer base. There is a lot
21
of win-wins and this is just -- it was a great
22
sort of synergy for us in reaching out to new

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communities.
2
I want to talk about a couple of
3
different things. The first one is our grant
4
program, because we have had some really fun
5
success stories with that. So I'm really the
6
grassroots person. I'm the one who is out
7
there. I'm talking to our members. I'm in the
8
rural communities and I see some of the stuff
9
in action.
10
And I had talked to them a few weeks
11
ago about one of our telecom companies in Oregon,
12
which I just love this story, but it's Clear
13
Creek in Oregon. And I walked into their office
14
and said well, why do you have all these laptops
15
in the lobby and all these computers set up in
16
the lobby? And they had some teenagers sitting
17
there working on them and I thought well, that's
18
interesting. Is this some kind of work program?
19
Well, no, they just hire teenagers
20
to come in after school and sit in the lobby,
21
because they find that so many people come in
22
to pay their bills, which I know and I have said

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this before, it's unimaginable for us in
2
Washington that people actually go in to the
3
company and pay their bill in person, we don't
4
do that here.
5
But it is in rural communities
6
something that happens very regularly. And
7
they have the teenagers there surfing the
8
Internet and, you know, they have folks well,
9
what are you doing and sit down next to them
10
and talk to them. And, you know, the next thing
11
you know, they are showing them things on the
12
Internet.
13
It's a very, very basic grassroots
14
level, but it's something that is kind of fun
15
and that works.
16
In Toledo Telephone in Washington
17
State, one of our board members actually at FRS
18
was telling me that he had a jump from 40 percent
19
to 70 percent through his BTOP Program. And
20
part of it was really just the computer process
21
they offered on-site at their telecom. And that
22
is something that I think our Rural Telecom

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Members do amazingly well.
2
Our customers have -- excuse me, our
3
telecommunications companies have amazing
4
customer service, phenomenal customer service.
5
They have Geek Squads, they have folks that
6
are going into people's homes and helping them.
7
And the real difference for them is if somebody
8
has a problem with their broadband, with their
9
connection, with anything going on in their
10
home, they see those folks in the grocery store.
11
The general manager of that company
12
sees them at church on Sunday, at the grocery
13
store on Monday and those people are complaining
14
to them directly. In a small town, there is
15
nowhere to run. So they really and truly thrive
16
on good customer service and it's very, very
17
important to our members.
18
One of the other ones I love talking
19
about and somebody had mentioned it last time
20
or asked me about a mobile computer lab and if
21
anyone had done anything with that. We had just
22
given a grant in 2011 to Lake Pearl Economic

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Development Authority in Minnesota for a mobile
2
computer lab and our money kind of finished off
3
their project and allowed them to move forward
4
with this.
5
So they have a sort of shuttle bus
6
that goes to six different communities. It is
7
handicap accessible. They have a Kindle, an
8
iPad, a digital camera and seven computers on
9
the bus and they actually drive around to
10
different communities to senior centers. They
11
really focus on seniors and sort of below-income
12
levels and they really try to get out there and
13
work on adoption on a very grassroots level
14
again.
15
They sent me a picture of it last
16
night. I was calling and asking them some
17
questions about the program and how it was going
18
and it's just -- it's really, really cool to
19
see that in action. They are actually serving
20
30 people a week right now, which may not seem
21
like a lot to us here in Washington, but for
22
a small rural community, that's a lot of folks

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that they are reaching through that program.
2
One other thing that we are doing
3
at the foundation is we are doing foundations
4
of computing and basic digital literacy classes.
5
And this one is kind of surprising, I think,
6
but when we go to one of NTCA's meetings with
7
3,000 telecom association folks, we have a lot
8
of people who are on the board of directors of
9
these companies. And many of them have been
10
on that board for 20, 30, 40 years.
11
They are not necessarily telecom
12
people with a telecom background. Many of them
13
are farmers. And so, you know, they come in
14
and you would think they might have a stronger
15
background, but they don't. So we actually
16
offered a class at a recent meeting and just
17
had an overwhelming popularity for a basic
18
digital literacy class.
19
And it is interesting, you know, the
20
first thing a lot of them ask is well, how do
21
I Skype with my grandkids? So that's -- but
22
it's always a great inlet and it's a great way

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to get people interested and engaged in it.
2
I have a wonderful slide, I wish I had it with
3
me today, of one of my friends children at 6
4
months-old. She has her baby in a Bumbo seat
5
Skyping with her grandmother across the country
6
in a rural community.
7
But I love that photo, because it
8
really shows what opportunities are out there
9
and what a great way to see and get people engaged
10
and interested and maybe they can take that next
11
step.
12
So, I mean, we have a lot of kinds
13
of things going on at the foundation. I would
14
be happy to talk to you all about them in more
15
detail, but it's just a very exciting time for
16
us.
17
I kind of let the folks at NTCA work
18
on the policy side and the lobbying side, that's
19
their gig. So when we start getting into
20
infrastructure and costs, I defer those
21
questions to them.
22
But on the foundation side, we are

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really about investing in our rural communities
2
and making sure they have tools they need.
3
And I will tell you just on a side
4
note as well, our 100 teenagers that were here
5
last week, two weeks ago, they asked some pretty
6
tough questions. I've got to say the
7
Commissioners, I think, were a little taken back
8
by some of the questions they asked. But it
9
was kind of fun to see how engaged they were
10
in this whole sort of issue talking about digital
11
divide between rural and urban areas, in terms
12
of adoption and that sort of thing.
13
And so I think we have a really great
14
group of young people coming up that are asking
15
some of these tough questions and hoping to push
16
some of these adoption issues forward for their
17
communities as well.
18
CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you,
19
Elizabeth. Cecilia?
20
MS. GARCIA: Thank you, Debra. I
21
would like to thank Debra and the Broadband
22
Working Group for giving me an opportunity to

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talk about a very interesting gathering that
2
the Benton Foundation and Connected Living
3
co-hosted. And some of you were actually there.
4
Debra was in the audience and Mitsi was in the
5
audience, Chris Baker helped me out on one of
6
the panels.
7
We had decided some time ago, based
8
on our involvement in Illinois with the
9
Connected Living BTOP Program to look deeper
10
into some of the policy solutions that might
11
emerge from this major federal investment that
12
has been made. And as Tom points out is coming
13
to an end very soon in the BTOP Sustainable
14
Broadband Adoption and Public Computer Center
15
grants that had been made in 2009.
16
And so what we are -- what we wanted
17
to do was take a look specifically at, what we
18
consider, one of the most vulnerable populations
19
and that's low-income elderly. And the NTIA
20
had identified about 20 programs funded through
21
the BTOP grants that addressed issues or
22
actually provided services for unserved and

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under-served communities of low-income elderly.
2
So what we did on the 22nd was tried
3
to take a very close look at one of those projects
4
that had built-in evaluation from the very
5
beginning of the process. And unfortunately,
6
when BTOP started, there were a number of us,
7
including Charles Benton, who sat on this CAC
8
for several terms, who made a lot of meetings
9
here at the FCC, but primarily at NTIA, at the
10
time, asking what efforts are going to be made
11
to evaluate this investment from the beginning,
12
so that we know what approaches work in what
13
communities, what solutions can be made
14
mid-course, so that at the end of this
15
investment, we come away with really strong data
16
similar to what Tom was talking about about what
17
approaches work and how then to use that to
18
inform policy as we move forward in bringing
19
the entire nation into good use of 21st Century
20
telecommunications technology. We need to do
21
that.
22
Unfortunately, I think, very few

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projects really had the same kind of attention
2
to strong third-party evaluations that
3
Connected Living had. We looked at that as a
4
real asset for that project.
5
We found some very interesting
6
findings, based on at least their initial
7
evaluation. They will be doing their last round
8
of surveys and final evaluation this summer.
9
But some of the things that they are looking
10
at are -- in addition to the barriers that Tom
11
had pointed out, I think what emerged from the
12
discussions on May 22nd were some additional
13
barriers.
14
And one of the -- for this, the
15
low-income elderly anxiety is one of those
16
intangible barriers that, as a person increases
17
in age, becomes even more apparent when it comes
18
to technology.
19
And again, you have seen this
20
through every new iteration of technology. It
21
doesn't matter if it is -- it goes from the radio
22
to -- all the way through broadband access.

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As we get older, there is a fear that if you
2
touch something new, you might break it. If
3
you touch the computer, you're going to break
4
it.
5
So what implications does that have
6
on how we do sustainable Broadband Adoption
7
training? Do we do it in a person's home? And
8
I think there is a tension that kind of emerged
9
throughout the day on the 22nd. There were those
10
who were saying we really have to have a computer
11
in every elderly person's living space, so that
12
they are always connected. They always have
13
access.
14
Then there are others who argued
15
equally passionately that no, what is more
16
important is where does that person learn best?
17
Is it maybe in a senior housing project, if
18
there is a computer lab on-site? Instead of
19
having a computer in that person's living space,
20
if they are in a common area where there is access
21
to trainers and access to other people and access
22
to, you know, the kind of support that they need

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right then, it may be better for them in that
2
learning.
3
So in other words, as Tom pointed
4
out, there is no one-size-fits-all solution to
5
bringing this most vulnerable population
6
on-line.
7
We will have -- I don't want to talk
8
about the whole day, because we spent eight hours
9
at this. It was very interesting. We looked
10
at -- we did -- Tony Wilhelm actually came in
11
from NTIA and gave luncheon remarks.
12
And the interesting thing/point
13
that he made is that by 2015, there will be more
14
people in the United States over the age of 60
15
than under the age of 15. I thought that was
16
very compelling. I guess, you know, my thinking
17
was just the opposite. That, you know, the
18
younger age cohorts were greater in number, but
19
the fact is we are an aging population.
20
And so we have to pay attention to
21
this, because low-income seniors are not part
22
of the digital economy. And we need to make

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sure that we do whatever we can learn, whatever
2
we can from this major federal investment. We
3
can't let it go to waste.
4
We have to see what can we learn
5
from BTOP. How can we adopt those to policies
6
that bring everyone on-line in a comfortable
7
way, in a way that protects their privacy, that
8
helps with the anxiety.
9
There is another finding that we
10
heard from a number of speakers who said that
11
contrary to popular opinion, issues of isolation
12
are actually mitigated when elderly begin to
13
get engaged on-line.
14
There was this theory that has been
15
floating around that the more we engage in
16
computers and we're stuck to -- you know, instead
17
of face-to-face communications with people,
18
that we get more isolated.
19
Well, at least anecdotally, the
20
Digital Inclusion Initiative that was done by
21
Senior Service America in collaboration with
22
Generations On-Line is finding just the

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opposite. That as people get more engaged with
2
family communications, with seeing the world
3
outside of their living quarters, that's
4
actually helping to fight isolation.
5
The other thing that we learned that
6
I think is very exciting and particularly
7
pertinent to any efforts in terms of developing
8
a digital literacy core, at least two of the
9
projects that we talked to on May 22nd reported
10
back that peer coaching, seniors who come
11
through a training and then turn around and begin
12
to train their peers, it's a very successful
13
approach in at least two of the projects.
14
Intergenerational is also a very
15
good approach and the New York OATS Project shows
16
a lot of good synergy between young people and
17
the elderly. But again, peer-to-peer also is
18
very, very significant.
19
And I want to stop there, because
20
I would like to hear questions from the audience
21
around this.
22
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you all. That

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was great. We got so much information there.
2
Fantastic. So let's do -- Chris, is your card
3
up for a question? Excellent. Okay. Raise
4
your hand and identify yourself.
5
MR. BAKER: Chris Baker.
6
CHAIR BERLYN: Actually, you
7
weren't on.
8
MR. BAKER: Chris Baker. Chris
9
Baker?
10
CHAIR BERLYN: Hello, over there in
11
the booth? Let's try it again.
12
MR. BAKER: Mark DeFalco?
13
CHAIR BERLYN: I think you are on
14
now. I think you are on.
15
MR. BAKER: That worked?
16
CHAIR BERLYN: I think that worked.
17
MR. BAKER: Okay. Well, I just
18
want to thank the panelists for coming. A lot
19
of interesting information. Although, I do
20
have to admit, I'm a little disappointed with
21
the -- some of the statistics that they didn't
22
include any mention of quality and the quality

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of broadband.
2
It's so important. I mean, you
3
know, saying you have Broadband Adoption is sort
4
of like saying well, you don't have to walk.
5
You know, you can take a bike. You can take
6
a car. You can fly in an airplane. It's not
7
the same thing.
8
And it's important to recognize that
9
the services that can help older adults in many
10
ways require a little more quality and speed.
11
So that's point one.
12
Point two, I think digital literacy
13
is so important. And I agree with you, I'm --
14
I think the Benton Foundation's work on this
15
is great.
16
But, you know, it's also important
17
to look at the technology as well, you know,
18
digital literacy is about trying to get people
19
to adapt to the technology. I think it's also
20
important to have technology that works for
21
people. And making these devices easier to use
22
and more intuitive, I think, will get rid of

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a lot of the anxiety that older adults have.
2
And there just doesn't seem to be
3
as much focus on that in the policy circles.
4
So --
5
MS. CROCKER: I would love to jump
6
in on that one if you don't mind.
7
MR. BAKER: Sure.
8
MS. CROCKER: Because this paper
9
that we just put out really addresses that.
10
And one thing we are really encouraging our
11
telecos to do, a few of them have taken a really
12
strong lead on it and we are trying to show that
13
as an example and say look at what all, you
14
know, the other companies can do.
15
And they are really offering
16
opportunities for folks to Age in Place with
17
remote monitoring and video conferencing. In
18
fact, one of our board members from Tennessee
19
told me she just went to all five hospitals
20
and have out this paper and started talking to
21
them about video conferencing.
22
One of the interesting things in

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there was psychiatry, which is one of the easiest
2
things to do. And really especially for people
3
in rural communities who are so far from
4
specialists, that have to drive so far to get
5
some place, they might not actually do it, but
6
they might go to their local hospital that
7
doesn't necessarily have a specialist, but get
8
on-line and do a video conference.
9
So we really are trying to provide
10
some of those opportunities and encourage --
11
for us again, it's a win-win. The telecos have
12
a broader business base. They are investing
13
in their community making it stronger and we
14
are really providing better services for the
15
folks who live there.
16
So we really are trying to do that
17
more and more in our membership.
18
MR. BAKER: Thanks.
19
MR.
KOUTSKY:

Yes,
and
I
20
self-edited in my slides, so I would be happy
21
to get with you afterwards, because we do have
22
-- you know, part of our surveys do include

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quality and technology measurements, too. I
2
just didn't throw them up there. But I'm happy
3
to share those with you.
4
You know, actually, there is an
5
interplay here between supply and demand that
6
is important to understand. I actually think
7
for a lot of particular applications of
8
broadband technology would rely upon a ubiquity
9
of service networks. Particularly of the
10
wireless variety.
11
You know, a thing like a remote
12
monitoring device, you know, to help and elderly
13
diabetic patient, you know, remotely monitor,
14
you know, their condition over time, does not
15
necessarily require that person to be a
16
subscriber to broadband service.
17
What that requires is for somebody
18
to invent the device that utilizes an LTE
19
wireless network much like buying a Kindle
20
device doesn't require you to be a Sprint
21
subscriber, even though it uses the Sprint
22
Network to get you the book.

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I think we will start to see a lot
2
more of those types of devices as 4G service
3
gets rolled out. I think we will see a lot more
4
device-type uses of broadband that will benefit
5
a lot of, particularly, elderly, but also
6
educational tools.
7
But at the same time, that is a very
8
useful thing to have, but also there is the
9
dependence on the ubiquity of that. I mean,
10
if that's only available to 85 percent of the
11
United States, that's now 15 percent, that
12
doesn't -- people won't be able to take advantage
13
of that device.
14
But also, it doesn't necessarily
15
engender the growth of technology skills that
16
our country needs from its work force. We have
17
an interesting job skills gap right now where
18
there is a shortage of workers qualified to
19
perform technology tools -- technology-related
20
jobs. And yet, we have, you know, 8 percent
21
unemployment and we have, you know, more people
22
out of work now than we have had, you know, in

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most of our -- most of the last generation.
2
So, you know, there is a skills gap
3
that also needs to be addressed, which, I think,
4
things like digital literacy training and
5
getting computers and devices into homes, so
6
that, you know -- and into schools will help
7
overcome that skills gap.
8
CHAIR BERLYN: I think Mitsi, Lise,
9
Mark.
10
MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: I'm sorry, Ken. Ken
12
is in there somewhere. Sorry. Mitsi?
13
MS. HERRERA: Sorry. Mitsi
14
Herrera, Cable and Broadband Administrator from
15
Montgomery County.
16
I guess what I am interested in is
17
your outcome data and how that is driving you
18
to change things? In Montgomery County,
19
Comcast as part of the NBC Universal merger had
20
to launch the Internet Essentials Program or
21
at least market it, which is a $10 a month service
22
eligible to families who have a child at the

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time it was eligible for free meals and now they
2
have expanded it to free and reduced meals.
3
They have had a year of experience
4
with that program. In Montgomery County, and
5
so I'm saying this because I -- well, let me
6
just say it. In Montgomery County, there are
7
47,000 children in public schools who are
8
enrolled in free and reduced meals. They
9
thought that that might translate out into 9,700
10
eligible households.
11
Of that, after a year, they had 353
12
families apply. They approved 202. And there
13
were 165 that were activated. That is after
14
a year of trying to promote this. They worked
15
somewhat with schools. They had various
16
messages that came out.
17
And I'm saying this because we are
18
working with Comcast and we actually had a very
19
good meeting. I think I copied several people
20
here on an agenda in which we brought together
21
people who are working with low-income clients
22
to try to see how to expand that.

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And the reason I point it out is
2
because what we are doing is not working. And
3
the reason that -- and the only reason we know
4
that it is not working is because we are actually
5
honest with ourselves about tracking the
6
outcomes of our efforts. And that is spurring
7
us to try to figure out new ways for those things.
8
In particular, with that program,
9
we are trying to figure out we have people in
10
phone banks who are willing to set-up in
11
low-income houses, so that you can come down
12
and fill it out. We are trying to figure out
13
a plan of could you have them bring the letter
14
in which they are eligible for the program and
15
Comcast finds a way that they could fax the
16
enrollment form right there, so that there is
17
somebody available to help you fill out the
18
forms.
19
And there is lot of different moving
20
parts, but getting back to that, I point this
21
out not because I want to disparage what Comcast
22
is doing, but to say that it's hard and we have

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to think differently and figure out how to
2
partner with people who have contacts.
3
So Tom, thank you very much for the
4
slides. Those are great slides. But can you
5
focus and talk about what other outcome data
6
are you looking at that helps us figure out what
7
we need to do differently?
8
MR. KOUTSKY: We look at the data
9
for our programs. I didn't mention that we have
10
two Broadband Adoption Projects that we are
11
working on, one in Ohio that is focused on,
12
almost exclusively, training. And another one
13
that is working with the Boys and Girls Clubs
14
in Tennessee that is focusing much more on kind
15
of a mentorship and, you know, very targeted
16
towards foster youth families.
17
But so, you know, we are starting
18
our own program, so I can only speak about the
19
data. I think Cecilia, you know, does make this
20
great point that as these NTIA programs start
21
to roll-up, we need to analyze that and we need
22
to know facts like that about programs like this.

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When you are kind of in an
2
experimentation phase, I think you shouldn't--
3
we can be disappointed, you know, in things,
4
but I think we shouldn't be too surprised if
5
certain approaches fail.
6
Honestly, you know, I think that
7
it's great that you are working with Comcast
8
to work on that project. You know, frankly,
9
you know, even though I said that cost was the
10
main barrier to entry for families with --
11
low-income families with kids, it was still only
12
the main barrier to entry for about 40 percent
13
of those households.
14
The other barriers, such as
15
literacy, awareness, relevance, were still
16
there. So your universe of 9,000 households
17
was immediately shrunk to 4,000. You know, if
18
your -- if my numbers are right.
19
MS. HERRERA: Yes, and the --
20
MR. KOUTSKY: But I'm not defending
21
the program, because I think, you know, myself,
22
I would be not as focused on in making sure we

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only sell this to people that we truly know are
2
low-income. Right? And I think that you can
3
get yourself caught up in that verification and
4
validation and paperwork game to your -- I think
5
that becomes a problem, because it makes the
6
entire program more cumbersome.
7
But I do think it is important that
8
if you just have a program that is basically
9
just focused on cost, right, you are saying that
10
I don't care about 60 percent of the problem,
11
basically. I'm going to look at only, you know,
12
the 43 percent of those households.
13
So I think that there is part of that
14
going on here, too. But understanding it and
15
trying to devise different ways of reaching that
16
audience, I think, is an important second step.
17
MS. HERRERA: Just wait. Are you
18
tracking when they come into your programs, even
19
the non-cost ones?
20
MR. KOUTSKY: Oh, yes.
21
MS. HERRERA: You track -- if you
22
weren't --

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MR. KOUTSKY: We do.
2
MS. HERRERA: -- using it before,
3
at the end of the program, are you tracking?
4
Do you now sign up and get it?
5
MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.
6
MS. HERRERA: And do you have that
7
data?
8
MR. KOUTSKY: We do for our training
9
programs that we have, which is a little bit
10
easier, because we have in-person training, so
11
we know who the person is and we give them an
12
account. And we kind of, you know, figure out
13
a way to try and reach them a year later.
14
We have -- that program has been in
15
place for a year, so we are just now at that
16
point of coming back to people and saying are
17
you still on-line? Our initial -- we do surveys
18
at the conclusion of training to say are you
19
likely to buy broadband now? Are you more
20
likely to buy broadband than you were at the
21
beginning of the training, etcetera?
22
Those numbers have become very

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positive. But, you know, part of our evaluation
2
now is to kind of go back and ask those people
3
again, are you still a broadband subscriber or
4
did you ever actually buy that computer you said
5
you were going to buy?
6
We also, by focusing on training,
7
tend to end up with more motivated people.
8
People walk into a training class for a reason.
9
They want to do it because they tried to apply
10
for a job a couple of weeks ago and they couldn't
11
figure out how to do it.
12
So there is a little bit of selection
13
bias in that group, too, but it is reaching
14
people at the point of need, which I think is
15
important.
16
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, Cecilia, real
17
quick. Cecilia can probably answer that, too.
18
MS. GARCIA: Yes. I just wanted to
19
say that the Connected Living evaluation process
20
got the baseline information that you are
21
talking about and then did intermediate surveys.
22
The interesting thing about them,

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it will be this summer, they are going to go
2
back to the residents of the senior housing in
3
their target area who did not partake of
4
anything. And they are going to find -- they
5
want to find out why and see what learnings can
6
come from that.
7
They are also looking at price
8
points. They are asking questions like at what
9
level would you be willing to pay to continue
10
this after the subsidy is over? So we are
11
looking for some very interesting data from that
12
this summer.
13
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. We are going
14
to move very quickly. Lise, a quick question?
15
MS. HAMLIN: This is Lise Hamlin
16
from Hearing Loss Association. Yes, this is
17
quick actually and you may have dealt with this,
18
but it was not clear from what you presented.
19
I noted that you saw -- you tracked
20
how many people with disabilities were there.
21
But from my perspective, people with hearing
22
loss, and I suspect this is true with other

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people with disabilities, when they are --
2
especially seniors with disabilities have an
3
inability to get access.
4
In other words, you are trying to
5
go to a training program and you think I can't
6
hear what is going on. I can't get access to
7
the information. And I think people with sentry
8
disabilities and other disabilities have the
9
same issue and I would just put that to you as,
10
you know, have you tracked it?
11
Do you want -- if you haven't, it's
12
something I think maybe you should track.
13
MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, Lise.
15
MS. HAMLIN: Yes.
16
CHAIR BERLYN: Ken, a quick
17
question?
18
MR. McELDOWNEY: A quick question.
19
Ken McEldowney, Consumer Action. I did not
20
hear much talked about in terms of dicing and
21
slicing in terms of people, color and folks for
22
whom English is not the primary language.

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And I'm wondering what is being done
2
both in the survey and also in terms of outreach
3
to those populations?
4
MS. CROCKER: I'm just going to
5
answer really quickly. We don't have a lot of
6
time.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: Oh, sorry.
8
MS. CROCKER: Sorry. We don't have
9
a lot of time. Rick Schadelbauer from NTCA did
10
a really nice Broadband Adoption piece last
11
year, and I would be happy to get a copy to Debra
12
and she can distribute it to the group, that
13
tackles some of those statistics and some of
14
that information as well.
15
CHAIR BERLYN: And you have some
16
information on that, so does the Joint Center
17
for Policy and Economic Studies.
18
MR. KOUTSKY: Yes. We have a lot
19
of cross-cuts on our website, which is
20
connectednation.org/research, and you can
21
actually track -- there is a little button where
22
you can click for low-income minority,

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non-native, you know, types, you know.
2
MR. McELDOWNEY: Well, I guess the
3
second point was what is being done, in terms
4
of reaching out in language to those
5
populations?
6
MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.
7
MS. GARCIA: Can I just say?
8
MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.
9
MS. GARCIA: Just real quickly, one
of the projects that we looked at on May 22nd
10
11
was a non-BTOP-funded project in Miami. And
12
the area -- the Alliance for Aging, the Executive
13
Director there decided on his own that he needed
14
to find money to do his own experiment, mainly
15
because low-income communities of color and also
16
non-English speaking residents of senior
17
housing had very strong issues with getting
18
on-line.
19
So that project, I think, has a lot
20
of learning from that as well. We will have
21
a report based on our findings available on our
22
website probably next week.

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MR. McELDOWNEY: Great. Okay.
2
CHAIR BERLYN: I think we are going
3
to have to -- I want to get back to Deborah and
4
Sharon. Dorothy, if we could take your question
5
in writing for our team, unless it's real --
6
is it real quick, Dorothy?
7
MS. WALT: Well, I just have a short
8
comment or I can hold off, either one.
9
CHAIR BERLYN: Short?
10
PARTICIPANT: The microphone.
11
MS. WALT: I have a short comment
12
or I can hold either way.
13
CHAIR BERLYN: Can we take a short
14
comment? A short comment, Dorothy.
15
MS. WALT: Yes, thank you, Debra.
16
CHAIR BERLYN: Sure.
17
MS. WALT: Dorothy speaking,
18
Dorothy Walt. The only comment I wanted to make
19
related to seniors is to have an opportunity
20
to receive training on using computers through
21
the National Deaf/Blind Equipment Distribution
22
Program, if they are qualified for that program.

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They get free equipment and free
2
training. And the trainer comes to their home
3
and trains them. And they also go back for
4
follow-up visits and stuff like that. It
5
depends on each state's policy when they get
6
it set up. I just wanted to make that comment.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.
8
MS. WALT: Thank you.
9
CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you,
10
Dorothy. That's great information.
11
Okay. Thank you, panel, that was
12
really great. Appreciate that. Great data
13
points and I know there is more information
14
on-line at Connected Nation.
15
MR. KOUTSKY: Yes.
16
CHAIR BERLYN: And also at your
17
website?
18
MS. CROCKER: That's frs.org and we
19
have paper and we can send you a PDF copy or
20
if anybody wants more information.
21
CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Thank
22
you so much. Appreciate it.

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MS. GARCIA: Thank you.
2
MR. KOUTSKY: Thank you.
3
(Applause)
4
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, that was
5
great. Appreciate it. Oh, yes, thank you.
6
Elizabeth is going to leave some copies of this
7
up here, so you can pick some of these Aging
8
in Place and the Role of Broadband, if you want
9
to pick one up.
10
So we have a little bit of time to
11
get back to some questions. We have got about
12
10 minutes, but I do want to get back to some
13
questions, if you can put your mindset back on
14
our previous topic about the Consumer Complaints
15
process.
16
So oh, Ed, quick, yes? You're up.
17
Saw it first. Oh, and then Stephen, I'm sorry.
18
I saw yours second. Ed? Give it a go.
19
MR. BARTHOLME: I'm Ed Bartholme
20
with Call for Action. We actually partner with
21
media outlets around the country to set up
22
consumer help hotlines. So we do have

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experience in the intake processes related to
2
consumer complaints and tracking and kind of
3
keeping an eye on that data.
4
I had a couple of thoughts and
5
suggestions. We do have a web form that we
6
utilize for consumers to make use of. We tend
7
to choose to classify and categorize the
8
complaints that come in internally. We don't
9
allow consumer self-selection for categories.
10
We take the information and our
11
staff and our volunteers review each complaint
12
and then assign it a category. I realized that
13
there is a scaling issue and you guys probably
14
do deal with significantly more than we do, but
15
I think it's important.
16
If your goal is consistency and to
17
actually
have
useful
data,
consumer
18
self-selection can make that harder to achieve.
19
You know, they are clouded with -- they are
20
upset about what has happened to them. They
21
are angry possibly about this. And it could
22
be that they pick the completely wrong category

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as to what you guys would have as a definition
2
and where that would go and that can lead to
3
some pretty heavily skewed statistical
4
outcomes.
5
Another thing that comes to mind is
6
the FTC has a really good set up with the Sentinel
7
Program, in that other organizations can feed
8
into that, if they choose to. So that might
9
be something to look at from a back end, is there
10
a way for other organizations who take
11
communications-related complaints to feed some
12
of their data over to you guys, so that you can
13
get a broader picture and cover a bigger swath
14
necessarily of what comes in to you.
15
And just kind of a third tip, one
16
of the things that -- we used to have categories
17
and subcategories and we found it to be very
18
cumbersome, so we did decide to go strictly with
19
kind of broader categories and then a key word,
20
as a second step.
21
So our system allows for a category
22
search and a key word. So you can do, for

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instance, you know, wireless and then billing
2
as the key word to pick up all the
3
billing-related or, you know, you could use a
4
different key word if you chose to.
5
CHAIR BERLYN: Awesome. Thanks.
6
And hopefully Ed will do something to capture
7
all of this in our follow-up as well. So
8
Stephen. Then raise your hand, let's capture
9
this quickly.
10
MR. POCIASK: Yes. I'm Steve
11
Pociask with the American Consumer Institute.
12
Those are good comments, Ed.
13
Okay. You talked a little bit about
14
the tracking, the classification and, you know,
15
sort of accounting for this output of
16
complaints. My question is I really didn't hear
17
and to what extent do you actually account for
18
outcomes, rather than just the, you know,
19
output?
20
I'm talking about the actions. In
21
many cases, you provide information, referrals.
22
Do you account for that? Do you track that

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in cases you have intervention? Because to me,
2
that's kind of interesting. It's one thing,
3
we have a big accounting for the output, but
4
what about the outcomes?
5
MS. BOWERS: That's a very good
6
question. Thank you. And I appreciate the
7
comments from Consumer Action as well.
8
Our Consumer Advocacy Mediation
9
Specialists deal with consumers one-on-one.
10
And each case is assigned to a CAMS. And as
11
the CAMS work through that process, they are
12
constantly updating that record to show how the
13
consumer is being helped.
14
There is times that we can't come
15
to a resolution that the consumer is satisfied.
16
But we at least document in the case what the
17
Commission -- what we have done, what the CAMS
18
have done to try to assist that person.
19
We are one-on-one. The CAMS are on
20
the front line dealing with the consumer's
21
individual problems. Now, how that sort of
22
shakes out to larger numbers that we produce,

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we keep track of disputed amounts, how much money
2
we have actually gotten back for the consumer
3
in their complaint. But we really don't report
4
anything beyond that individual complaint that
5
is more internal to us, if that answers your
6
question?
7
CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Yes.
8
MS. MARTINEZ: Mia Martinez with
9
the National Asian American Coalition. I just
10
wanted to follow-up on Ken's comments regarding
11
capturing complaint data by race or ethnicity.
12
This would be extremely helpful in developing
13
a more effective targeted outreach to the
14
minority communities.
15
And secondly, I checked the App
16
Store a couple of minutes ago and I saw that
17
there is an FCC App and Mobile Broadband test.
18
Perhaps the Bureau can explore possibilities
19
of having an app or developing an app for
20
submitting complaints.
21
I also wanted to note that this is
22
one platform that the Federal Trade Commission

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is also looking into at this moment for
2
submission of complaints and fraud. So perhaps
3
the Bureau could explore this option as well.
4
CHAIR BERLYN: Very good. And one
5
more question from Lise.
6
MS. HAMLIN: Lise, hello? Lise
7
Hamlin.
8
CHAIR BERLYN: Not quite.
9
MS. HAMLIN: Almost. Okay. We're
10
there.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.
12
MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin, Hearing
13
Loss Association of America. And thank you for
14
all you are doing and all this work. I will
15
say when I mentioned to a group of different
16
organizations working with people with hearing
17
loss, I had a number of people get back to me
18
and say yes, we hear all the time from consumers
19
who have real difficulty dealing with the forms,
20
so they just give up. They just won't do it.
21
And one of the suggestions that I
22
would have is making different levels not

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everything should be -- I know there is formal
2
complaints and informal complaints, but there
3
may even be a less formal using social media,
4
Facebook, even tweeting.
5
I'm sitting in front of my TV and
6
my captions are off. I don't want to go to my
7
computer and fill out a form that will take me
8
half an hour to fill out and then I miss whatever
9
I could get. Probably what I would have done
10
is change the program, because I wouldn't want
11
to have to sit through a program with no
12
captions.
13
But at least it gives me an option.
14
I have had a problem right now, here it is, I
15
can't resolve it. What do I do? And then you
16
get that information. And I think that that's
17
an issue.
18
Somebody also mentioned about -- I
19
mean, they were talking about different ways
20
of how you get consumers complaining at all,
21
because we know our community doesn't complain
22
a lot. And I think part of our problem also

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is that they -- our community doesn't know that
2
they can complain or who to go to or go to the
3
FCC.
4
So even having a real clear bullet
5
list that you can complain about. You know,
6
I know people come to us or consumer
7
organizations say I can't get a hearing aid
8
compatible phone. But we never think to go to
9
the FCC and say, you know, I'm having problems
10
and these are my problems.
11
See even having a real clear and
12
doing it without literature, doing it on your
13
website or getting us printed material, doing
14
various ways, I have heard several times today
15
one-size does not fit-all. And I think that's
16
a problem for you, but it's also part of the
17
solution is going tat it through different
18
avenues.
19
CHAIR BERLYN: Thanks. Luisa, do
20
you have something real quick?
21
MS. LANCETTI: Yes, I do.
22
CHAIR BERLYN: Sorry, I just saw

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your card.
2
MS. LANCETTI: Luisa Lancetti, a
3
very quick comment. And that is I think we all
4
agree that the FCC's work in this area is
5
important maybe even increasingly so and the
6
complaint data and the recording of it is very
7
powerful as well. So I think when Paul first
8
spoke, he talked about how if you don't like
9
Dallas, you know, maybe you can go to the FCC
10
and complain about it.
11
So I think the FCC itself recognizes
12
and I think it's also important as we begin to
13
look at trends and collect data and numbers,
14
etcetera, that we realize in some cases these
15
are not complaints or actionable in that sense.
16
And so it is very powerful, but it's also
17
important that it be looked at with great kind
18
of sophistication and care because of the
19
powerfulness of the information that is being
20
both collected, analyzed and acted on.
21
CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Very good,
22
excellent. Oh, great. Thank you. We are

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going to have to move on. You will have to get
2
your question later, Mitsi.
3
MS. HERRERA: That's fine.
4
CHAIR BERLYN: But thank you both
5
for coming back, for hearing us. We will be
6
discussing this again later when we talk about
7
our process for responding to their questions.
8
So thank you both again.
9
MS. BRODERSON: Thank you.
10
MS. BOWERS: Thank you.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: And have a good trip
12
back to Gettysburg.
13
MS. BOWERS: Thank you.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.
15
(Applause)
16
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. I know we are
17
starting to get hungry, which means we have
18
really good attention now. And can I call
19
Robert up to the table?
20
MR. ALDERFER: Rob, yes.
21
CHAIR BERLYN: Rob?
22
MR. ALDERFER: Rob, yes.

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CHAIR BERLYN: Rob.
2
MR. ALDERFER: Rob is good, yes.
3
CHAIR BERLYN: Rob is good. Okay.
4
Rob Alderfer. This is a very important topic.
5
As Commissioner Pai mentioned, Spectrum is real
6
important to consumers. And we are very
7
fortunate to have Rob here with us today with
8
the Incentive Options Team in the Wireless
9
Telecom Bureau. So thank you so much for
10
joining us.
11
MR. ALDERFER: Absolutely. Thanks
12
for having me.
13
CHAIR BERLYN: And I want to give
14
you as much time as we need for this topic, even
15
though our stomachs will be starting to rumble
16
a bit. So thank you so much.
17
MR. ALDERFER: Sure. Thanks for
18
having me, everyone, I really appreciate the
19
opportunity to talk with you today.
20
As Debra mentioned, I'm Rob
21
Alderfer. I'm the Chief Data Officer in the
22
Wireless Bureau here at the FCC. I'm also a

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member of the Incentive Auctions Task Force,
2
which consists of staff from across the Agency
3
working on this initiative.
4
And since my agenda item is entitled
5
"What Consumers Need to Know About Spectrum,"
6
I thought what I would do is just talk a little
7
bit about the basics, why the FCC is focused
8
on Spectrum and then dive into some specifics
9
on Incentive Auctions, if that's useful for
10
folks.
11
Okay. So what consumers need to
12
know about Spectrum. Well, the first thing they
13
need to know is that they use it frequently,
14
whether it is for Wi-Fi in their home, their
15
mobile phones, watching television with rabbit
16
ears or listening to the radio in their cars,
17
that's all Spectrum.
18
And Spectrum really serves a
19
function for a number of wireless services and
20
those services are things that consumers are
21
using more and more. Wireless services are
22
really proliferating in the economy.

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And actually, according to CTIA, we
2
have more wireless connections than there are
3
people in the United States, which is a pretty
4
astounding phenomenon. That gives you a sense
5
of the magnitude of the trend.
6
And really one of the key growth
7
areas in wireless services has been the growth
8
of wireless broadband. In the last three years,
9
mobile traffic, as a function of wireless
10
broadband growth, has increased over seven
11
times, according to CISCO. And the forecast
12
for the future is that that growth will continue
13
and even accelerate.
14
So if the Commission were to just
15
stand pat and do nothing about this trend, it
16
would really strain our Spectrum resources.
17
And so what that would mean for consumers, I
18
think, is higher prices, poorer service and lost
19
opportunities, frankly. So that's why the
20
Commission is so focused on Spectrum.
21
The
National
Broadband
Plan
22
outlined a number of strategies to meet consumer

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needs in the area of Spectrum really in three
2
broad categories. One is greater efficiency,
3
essentially squeezing more service out of the
4
Spectrum that we have. Sharing Spectrum, so
5
making sure that we really have services that
6
are compatible with each other doing what they
7
can to share Spectrum. And also reallocation
8
of Spectrum from legacy uses to new flexible
9
uses to allow the market to really meet consumer
10
needs.
11
And I'm really going to be talking
12
about that third category today, reallocation
13
of Spectrum. The Broadband Plan outlined a
14
number of potential bands that could be
15
candidates for reallocation to meet consumer
16
needs. They really stretch both from stuff that
17
the FCC manages across to what the Commerce
18
Department and NTIA manages.
19
And one of those was the broadcast
20
television band and that's where Incentive
21
Auctions comes in. So the Broadband Plan
22
recommended that the FCC, essentially, use a

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market-based process, known as Incentive
2
Auctions, to, essentially, enable part of the
3
Spectrum to be used for new wireless services.
4
And so that's what I'm going to be
5
focusing a little bit more on today.
6
And so it's helpful just to start
7
with a little bit about what Incentive Auctions
8
are. And at their core, they are really a
9
market-based means of making Spectrum available
10
for new services through a market-based process
11
while capturing value for the public and for
12
consumers.
13
And as I said, they were featured
14
in the National Broadband Plan, but it's
15
actually something that economists have been
16
talking about for some time before that. And
17
they were also featured and supported in the
18
President's Executive Memorandum on Spectrum
19
in November 2010 and were most recently
20
authorized by Congress in February of this year.
21
So the key mechanism in the
22
Incentive Auction process is the Commission's

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ability to share financial incentives with
2
incumbent license holders, Spectrum license
3
holders in return for relinquishing some or all
4
of their Spectrum rights back to the Commission
5
for repurposing to new services. So that's
6
something new. That's something that the
7
Commission hasn't done before.
8
And really what it does and why it's
9
good is it really aligns the interests of all
10
interested parties to the benefit of meeting
11
consumer needs for Spectrum. So incumbent
12
licensees, new licensees, consumers and the
13
Government can all benefit through this process.
14
So I'll talk a little bit about what
15
Congress directed us to do in February of this
16
year. Actually, the Middle Class Tax Relief
17
and Job Creation Act of 2012, Title 6 of that
18
law, had a number of provisions on Spectrum,
19
one of which was authorizing the Commission to
20
conduct Incentive Auctions. That was in ' 6402,
21
for those of you that are interested in looking
22
up the bill.

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And, essentially, the key provision
2
in 6402 was that authority for the Commission
3
to share auction proceeds with incumbent
4
licensees in return for their relinquishing
5
Spectrum back to the Commission. So that's
6
general authority and that's something that was
7
authorized for a number of years for the
8
Commission to use at its discretion.
9
Then the following section, ' 6403,
10
dealt
specifically
with
the
broadcast
11
television band. It had several provisions for
12
how the Commission should implement Incentive
13
Auctions in the context of Broadcast Spectrum,
14
including a number of protections for
15
over-the-air
television
viewers
and
16
broadcasters.
17
One of the things that section did
18
was outline a number of different ways that
19
broadcast television stations could relinquish
20
Spectrum back to the FCC.
21
So one way, as you might expect, is
22
to return a license for a full 6 megahertz

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channel, but that's not the only way. Stations
2
might also elect to move from, what's called,
3
the UHF band to the VHF band, so the high channels
4
to the low channels. The high channels being
5
a little more useful for wireless broadband.
6
That's another option that is available to --
7
that we expect will be available to broadcasters
8
when we get to implementation of Incentive
9
Auctions.
10
And also, the third option that was
11
outlined in the statute was channel sharing.
12
So as a function of digital broadcast
13
technology, more than one broadcast station can
14
actually use a 6 megahertz channel. So
15
essentially what that means, especially those
16
two latter options, they are available to
17
broadcasters to continue their over-the-air
18
broadcast operations while relinquishing some
19
Spectrum back to the FCC in return for financial
20
incentives.
21
So in that regard, we really think
22
there are win-win opportunities here that will

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result not just in repurposing Spectrum for
2
wireless services, but also strengthening the
3
broadcast sector and providing new business
4
options to broadcasters.
5
And in the same regard, if you think
6
about relinquishing a full 6 megahertz channel,
7
there are many station groups out there that
8
may wish to sort of consolidate their operations
9
and strengthen their business going forward.
10
And this is another way to do that through the
11
Incentive Auction.
12
So a couple of other things that '
13
6403 did in addition to providing these options
14
for broadcasters, it, essentially, made clear
15
that stations won't be forced to relinquish
16
their rights. So this is a voluntary process.
17
Stations will have the discretion to decide
18
which options works best for them and set the
19
price at which they want to accept those options.
20
And if they don't want to
21
participate, they don't have to.
22
Now, we do expect that there will

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be a realignment of the band as part of this
2
process as we move a portion of the Broadcast
3
Television Spectrum to wireless services. The
4
band will need to be realigned to make the
5
Spectrum useful for wireless services.
6
And so, essentially, what that will
7
mean is a new channel plan for television
8
stations. And there may be some costs involved
9
in that for broadcast stations and under the
10
law, those costs would be covered as part of
11
the auction proceeds would be used to pay for
12
that.
13
And one important thing to keep in
14
mind here through this repacking process is that
15
it's something that is a little bit different
16
from the Digital Television Transition, in that
17
consumers are already digital-ready.
18
So consumers have set-top boxes and
19
it's -- we don't expect that all stations will
20
be affected by the repacking process, so it's
21
going to be more limited in scope, we think.
22
And it will be a simple matter, we think, of

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probably rescanning boxes for over-the-air
2
viewers that may be affected by the repacking.
3
And we don't expect that to e the full
4
population of over-the-air viewers.
5
And, of course, television viewers
6
that subscribe to cable, satellite or watch TV
7
over the Internet won't be affected at all.
8
So a little bit on what we have done
9
to date at the staff level to implement Incentive
10
Auctions. Perhaps one of the most fundamental
11
things we have done is get the people in place
12
to do the work, and that's the Incentive
13
Auctions' Task Force.
14
You may know Gary Epstein, who is
15
the Chair of the Task Force, he sends his regrets
16
that he couldn't be here today, but he really
17
does view this as a key consumer initiative for
18
the Commission. And he has really compiled a
19
team from across the Agency to work on this
20
issue.
21
And we have also -- to help us in
22
this endeavor, retained a number of economic

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experts that specialize in auction design.
2
Because this is a new novel program, a lot of
3
different facets to it, we want to make sure
4
we are getting the best advice from the best
5
people out there.
6
And so we have a team of economists,
7
that I would be remiss if I didn't mention they
8
are prize-winning economists, that are at
9
Stanford and University of Maryland and they
10
are advising the Commission on auction design
11
and the economic aspects of this.
12
Another thing the Commission has
13
done recently back in the April meeting, the
14
Commission adopted an order that lays the
15
regulatory framework, some of the groundwork
16
for channel sharing. And, essentially, what
17
it did was, you know, adopt some basic parameters
18
for channel sharing that should compliment the
19
Incentive Auction when we move to implement
20
that. It doesn't really prejudge how channel
21
sharing would work within the context of
22
Incentive Auctions, but just sort of sets the

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framework for it.
2
Then there was actually a channel
3
sharing workshop in May, last month, two months
4
ago, at this point, in which we gathered the
5
industry together to talk about some of the
6
practical aspects of channel sharing. And we
7
will have more workshops and development. We
8
really do view public participation and outreach
9
as a key piece of this initiative.
10
And as we move forward, we are really
11
in the early stages right now. We are in what
12
I would call sort of the technical stage, in
13
which we are really focusing on the sort of
14
economic aspects and the engineering aspects
15
of this initiative and making sure that we have
16
our experts thinking about the key issues.
17
And that will inform a lot of the
18
policy that will be coming through the
19
rulemaking process.
20
And as I said, we view outreach as
21
a key component of this. And so it's certainly
22
a timely discussion for the Consumer Advisory

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Committee and we certainly look forward to your
2
input.
3
I can talk more about the different
4
piece parts of Incentive Auctions, if folks are
5
interested in hearing about that?
6
But just a few things to keep in mind
7
that I would like to really kind of reiterate.
8
First, the amount of Spectrum that is
9
repurposed out of the television bands for new
10
services will be a function of the voluntary
11
participation of broadcasters.
12
And it really -- and it being a
13
market-based process, we view it as being a
14
fairly consumer-friendly way to repurpose
15
Spectrum, inasmuch as it's, essentially, market
16
actors making the decision on Spectrum
17
repurposing and they should be certainly
18
responsive to their customers.
19
As I said, there are several options
20
for broadcasters to relinquish Spectrum.
21
Returning the full 6 megahertz channel sharing
22
and moving from a UHF channel to a VHF channel.

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These will all be teed up for the Commission
2
to consider in the rulemaking later this year.
3
But that's what the statute envisioned.
4
The statute also envisions that
5
there is no involuntary relinquishment of
6
Spectrum. And stations that don't participate
7
and don't want to relinquish Spectrum will be
8
compensated for any costs involved in the
9
repacking and realignment process that will come
10
as part of the Incentive Auctions.
11
And really, we think that this whole
12
initiative is a win-win for consumers of both
13
the wireless and broadcast sectors. And so,
14
as I said, we are very early on in the process
15
and we would like to get your input on what you
16
think it would take to make this initiative a
17
success.
18
And I can leave it there.
19
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you so much,
20
Rob. We do have time for some questions. I
21
see Ann's card up. Go ahead, Ann.
22
MS. BOBECK: Hi, I'm Ann Bobeck from

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the National Association of Broadcasters. I
2
just wanted to say thank you, Rob. Thank you
3
to Chairman Genachowski and his team. I know
4
that this has been a tremendous undertaking and
5
the number of staff involved to ensure that the
6
Incentive Auctions run smoothly.
7
And that we very much look forward
8
to the upcoming June 25th Workshop on TV
9
Broadcaster, the Fund Workshop. I know that
10
my boss, Jane Mago, is looking forward to
11
participating in that was well. And I think
12
those are very helpful, you know, they are
13
broadcast over the web for all of the -- for
14
all of us and members of the CAC to participate
15
in as viewers and as consumers as well.
16
So I encourage all of us to tune in
17
to the upcoming workshops. I know that the
18
Commission has a series of workshops throughout
19
the summer and the fall and I think that would
20
help us kind of guide and help inform from a
21
consumer perspective the challenges associated
22
with the Spectrum allocation as it affects

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viewers of television.
2
So thank you very much for inviting
3
consumer participation and we look forward to
4
a robust discussion, particularly in the fall
5
as the rulemaking comes out.
6
MR. ALDERFER: Thanks for the plug
7
on the workshops.
8
CHAIR BERLYN: Does anyone else
9
have a question?
10
MR. UMANSKY: Just very, very
11
brief.
12
CHAIR BERLYN: Barry?
13
MR. UMANSKY: Hi, I'm Barry Umansky
14
with the Digital Policy Institute and I Chair
15
the meet -- the working group. And certainly
16
this is -- the issues you talked about a moment
17
ago are certainly core interest of our immediate
18
working group. We have addressed them in
19
recommendations. And I think, listening to
20
your discussion, we are pretty much all on the
21
same page and we hope it's a very successful
22
process and we will certainly be tuning in.

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Thank you.
2
MR. ALDERFER: Great. Thank you.
3
CHAIR BERLYN: Scott? Raise your
4
hand, Scott, so they can see you back there.
5
MR. BERGMANN: Scott Bergmann with
6
CTIA. I just wanted to add my thanks as well.
7
We are really appreciative. Can you hear me
8
yet?
9
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, I can hear on
10
that one.
11
MR. BERGMANN: Okay. Good. I
12
just want to add my word of thanks as well to
13
-- for all the work that the FCC has done to
14
try to develop this process of an Incentive
15
Auction, recognizing the need to meet rising
16
consumer demand for wireless services. And
17
there is a lot of, you know, good record that
18
the FCC has helped develop about the consumer
19
benefits of mobile broadband services.
20
So we are looking forward to working
21
with you all as well, too, and it is a very
22
technical exercise that the FCC is about to go

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through. So sort of what the Consumer Advisory
2
Committee had on, we appreciate your focus on
3
how consumers stand to benefit from going
4
through this process. So thanks for that, Rob.
5
MR. ALDERFER: Okay. Thanks,
6
Scott.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: Rob, I'm going to ask
8
this question just so that everybody can get
9
a feel for this. And that's the timing
10
question.
11
So when does the FCC anticipate the
12
actual completion of the repacking process, so
13
that the auctions would actually take place on
14
the other end?
15
MR. ALDERFER: So the short answer
16
is we don't know. But I'll give you the longer
17
answer, too. So what we are working toward now,
18
what the Chairman has said, is that we would
19
like to have a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking
20
developed or a series of them in the fall of
21
this year.
22
That will layout some of the staff's

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thinking and the Commission's thinking on this
2
process. And from there, it becomes a function
3
that really kicks off the public engagement
4
process.
5
And so it's a little bit hard to
6
predict and I certainly wouldn't want to
7
prejudge what we would hear from people through
8
that process. I will say that we do view the
9
need for Spectrum as an urgent one and so we
10
are keeping that in mind.
11
But in terms of how it is all going
12
to come together, I think we are really going
13
to need everyone's input through the rulemaking
14
process to know that.
15
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. All right.
16
Well, thank you very much. We greatly
17
appreciate your coming down here.
18
MR. ALDERFER: Okay. Thanks.
19
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you.
20
MR. ALDERFER: Thank you.
21
(Applause)
22
CHAIR BERLYN: Lunch is served and

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we will reconvene at about 1:00. We did it.
2
We are back on schedule.
3
(Whereupon,
the
meeting
was
4
recessed at 12:25 p.m. to reconvene at 1:11 p.m.
5
this same day.)
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23

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A-F-T-E-R-N-O-O-N S-E-S-S-I-O-N
2
1:11 p.m.
3
CHAIR BERLYN: So this next session
4
is brought to you by Ed Bartholme and myself.
5
We have a topic on your agenda, as you see,
6
to have a discussion about the FCC's website.
7
And we did want to get some FCC staff to talk
8
with us about this topic and we still hope to
9
do that.
10
The scheduling didn't work out for
11
that, at this particular meeting, but hopefully
12
in the future we will do that.
13
But we do know that it would be
14
helpful for the FCC staff to perhaps have some
15
questions in advance that we might have about
16
the FCC website.
17
Now, just as some background, the
18
Consumer Working Group did discuss the FCC's
19
website a couple of times at various working
20
group meetings and we decided that it would be
21
a good topic to present to the full CAC for
22
discussion.

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So I'm going to turn it over to Ed
2
and we are going to have the capability to show
3
the website on the screen and go through it with
4
all of you. And the idea here is to talk about
5
the FCC's website as a useful instrument for
6
general consuming public as well as for those
7
of us who use the FCC website on a regular basis,
8
but also as representatives of the consumer
9
populations that we work with.
10
So, Ed, I'll turn it over to you.
11
MR. BARTHOLME: So I --
12
CHAIR BERLYN: And there we go.
13
MR. BARTHOLME: We talked about
14
this a little bit at one of the previous meetings
15
and there didn't seem to be a lack of interest
16
from anyone in the room, as it pertains to the
17
website, so we thought it would be a good idea
18
to kind of all share some thoughts and insight
19
on it. Like Debbie said, our goal was to have
20
a speaker, but it didn't coincide for this
21
meeting.
22
And we know that our time is short,

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so to speak, because we have one meeting left.
2
So we were hoping to get together a list of
3
advance questions to get that over to someone
4
in the Commission who could then address us on
5
those topics.
6
So if anybody wants to start by
7
firing off some suggestions or things that you
8
see or have thought about or have questions,
9
I know one of the big things that we initially
10
looked at is we all use the FCC's website in
11
probably a somewhat different capacity than what
12
we would imagine the typical consumer going to
13
the FCC's website does.
14
We look specifically for Notices of
15
Rulemaking and different dockets and different
16
things like that. We have also heard
17
anecdotally that most of the people in the room,
18
and I won't make you raise your hand, go to the
19
website and first click on where is the old
20
website and how do I get there, because that's
21
how I know how to get around things. And that
22
has been left very prominently displayed on the

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new website.
2
So knowing all of that about
3
ourselves, we were wondering how do we translate
4
that to what your typical consumer is actually
5
going here and looking to find and do they find
6
it more beneficial than some of us who are used
7
to the old familiar might find it?
8
So that's kind of the direction
9
where the dialogue started. And then as we --
10
we had a call about this. As we started to kind
11
of drill down, we highlighted some things. I
12
want to open it up to you guys first and then
13
we can -- I'll share some of the things that
14
we saw as well to kind of prod along the
15
conversation, if there is a lull.
16
So I turn it over to you. I'll take
17
copious notes and make sure that everybody sees
18
this and get a copy. Right, yes, also the
19
reporter. The court reporter, yes.
20
CHAIR BERLYN: Can we flash the
21
website back up on the screen? There. There
22
we go.

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MR. BARTHOLME: Okay.
2
CHAIR BERLYN: Ann?
3
MR. BARTHOLME: Ann, you had --
4
MS. BOBECK: Hi, it's Ann Bobeck
5
from NAB. One of the things that I always
6
thought would be the simplest button on the home
7
page is if there was a consumer button for
8
consumers or for the public, just in general.
9
I know that as a petitioner, we are
10
fairly well-versed in both the old and slowly
11
migrating to the new FCC's website. But if I
12
were a consumer, even today coming to the new
13
FCC's website, there is a lot of information,
14
but it's hard, it's difficult to navigate.
15
And if there were just a consumer's
16
click here button and then sort of had a consumer
17
generated sort of home page, I think, you know,
18
there is take action at the top, but that's kind
19
of buried at the top. It's sort of, you know,
20
difficult. There is a lot of quick links.
21
There is bureaus. But as a consumer, I might
22
not know who those bureaus are or really what

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they do.
2
But I think that that might just be
3
a starting point.
4
MR. BARTHOLME: Okay. So kind of
5
along the lines of the top navigation bar, stick
6
one up there that just says consumer, so that
7
that way --
8
MS. BOBECK: Yes.
9
MR. BARTHOLME: -- it's readily and
10
exactly where it --
11
MS. BOBECK: Yes, for consumers,
12
yes.
13
MR. BARTHOLME: Yes.
14
MS. BOBECK: I'm just trying to
15
think if I were visiting the FCC for the first
16
time, I would have no idea what all this
17
information meant.
18
MR. BARTHOLME: Sure.
19
MS. BOBECK: For the average bear.
20
MR.
BARTHOLME:

Definitely.
21
Anyone else have any opening shots or questions?
22
MS. HAMLIN: Yes.

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CHAIR BERLYN: Lise Hamlin?
2
MS. HAMLIN: Am I coming through?
3
CHAIR BERLYN: Not quite yet.
4
MS. HAMLIN: Hello?
5
CHAIR BERLYN: There you go.
6
MS. HAMLIN: There I am. Okay.
7
One of the things that -- recently, I was putting
8
together a PowerPoint for a presentation, so
9
I wasn't specifically looking for proceedings.
10
I was looking like somebody who might be
11
searching for information.
12
And what I found was if I went out
13
of the site and Googled what I wanted, FCC and
14
then whatever the topic was, it was much easier
15
to find information than if I went into the site
16
and went to the search engine on the site. I
17
couldn't find it.
18
And you are right about the links,
19
too. Okay, I'll get to a page, let's talk about
20
captioning and then it will say okay, other
21
things to talk about. They would never take
22
me where I wanted to go.

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So I'm not the tech person here, but
2
it sounds like to me there is a search engine
3
problem as well as --
two problems.
4
Organizational problem and maybe the consumer
5
page might be a way to get around that. But
6
there is also how do I find this? It's really
7
difficult to find what you are looking for.
8
CHAIR BERLYN: Stephanie?
9
MR. BARTHOLME: Stephanie?
10
MS. PODEY: Stephanie Podey from
11
NCTA. It seems like they tried to organize it
12
using this encyclopedia concept and I've just
13
found that a lot of the information I'm looking
14
for winds up being there, which I find through
15
a Google search. And it's just if it's
16
confusing for us, I'm sure it's terrible for
17
consumers.
18
MR. BARTHOLME: Dorothy, did you--
19
MS. WALT: Dorothy speaking. It
20
has been a long time since I looked at the
21
webpage. I don't remember if this was on there
22
or not. If it isn't, I would suggest you add

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1
to it.
2
Do you have a person assigning the
3
information, rather than -- in other words, some
4
deaf people whose first language is ASL and they
5
would prefer to read information through an ASL
6
interpreter. So I'm wondering if that's on the
7
website? If not, you might want to add that.
8
Thank you.
9
MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin again.
10
The other thing that I remember finding on this
11
is that some pages were easily printable and
12
other pages were not. And it would be -- most
13
of the information you want to be able to
14
download easily and print out. So I would
15
suggest that that be consistent.
16
MR. BARTHOLME: Okay.
17
CHAIR BERLYN: Can I just pose a
18
general question for anyone in the room? Does
19
anyone in the room have any firsthand knowledge
20
about any consumer use of the website? Does
21
anyone know about consumers using this website?
22
PARTICIPANT: No.

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CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.
2
MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera,
3
Montgomery County. I have a Consumer Advisory
4
Commission and, by and large, the report has
5
been that they really don't know where to find
6
anything on the site.
7
And one thing that used to happen,
8
the Media Bureau used to have a telephone
9
directory that was issue-based. So if this was
10
my issue, this is the person to call or who is
11
in charge. So that's lacking on this one. It
12
takes -- before it was one step to search people,
13
if you knew who to search for.
14
Now, it's a couple steps. But more
15
importantly, I don't know who is handling what.
16
And I say even for practitioners that's true,
17
because there is a lot of change-over, people
18
who used to be there, so who is the new person
19
who handles that?
20
The other thing overall I would say
21
is that it's very difficult to find any of the
22
reports, which I find ironic, because I feel

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like the FCC spends a lot of time issuing
2
reports.
3
Before, they used to have a way in
4
which the reports and the ones that they have
5
annually were kind of listed and then it would
6
list, you know, whatever the most current year
7
was along with all the back ones. And that has
8
just kind of disappeared into places. In a lot
9
of the information that they -- I was just
10
looking through while we were talking, so like,
11
for example, the Media Bureau, if you go on one
12
section and it asks for the open proceeding,
13
it will list that there is an open proceeding
14
about closed captioning.
15
But if I go to the subject and look
16
at closed captioning, it provides some kind of
17
evergreen information, but no link to the fact
18
that there is any active proceeding in this area.
19
So if I'm a consumer, I can't go in
20
by the subject, which is the thing I'm most
21
likely to be familiar with, and look to find
22
out what is the FCC doing right now on closed

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captioning.
2
MR. BARTHOLME: Ann?
3
MS. BOBECK: Ann Bobeck, NAB again.
4
Mitsi, if you would go to the transition, the
5
old FCC website, you go to the Media Bureau,
6
you can still see the subject matter expert list.
7
So there is the --
8
MS. HAMLIN: I can't hear you.
9
MS. BOBECK: The subject matter
10
expert list for the Media Bureau still is in
11
the FCC's website. It's just easier to access
12
through the old -- the transition website.
13
MS. HAMLIN: Right. But my -- what
14
my concern is I feel like at some point, they
15
are going to stop supporting the old website.
16
MS. BOBECK: Right.
17
MS. HAMLIN: I mean, it depends how
18
long we keep complaining, but --
19
CHAIR BERLYN: That's one of the
20
questions we don't have the answer to.
21
MS. BOBECK: Right.
22
CHAIR BERLYN: Is how long that

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transition button will still be there.
2
MS. HERRERA: Right. What would be
3
also beneficial, I think, that we make as a
4
recommendation or request is that that would
5
be certainly something that would be helpful
6
in all the bureaus to have a subject matter
7
expert list.
8
So if you had a question on CGB, who
9
is the contact person that I would need to be
10
to -- to go to if I have a complaint? Then I
11
need to go to the Enforcement Bureau, who?
12
Which question should I direct to what call
13
centers? There could be some troubleshooting
14
or experts that they could list.
15
I think that that would be helpful.
16
Certainly, you know, the 8th Floor Advisors are
17
fairly easy to find, because they are on the
18
home page and the Commissioners. But I think
19
that's something that they could expand. It's
20
just the Media Bureau, I think, was the first
21
and being the most established bureaus.
22
But that could be helpful beyond one

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bureau.
2
MR. BARTHOLME: Barry?
3
MR. UMANSKY: Yes, just three quick
4
things. I want to agree with Ann. I think the
5
Media Bureau is a good model for how to do this
6
right to link experts with topics and so forth.
7
Also, I have been trying to use a
8
variety of other agencies website, some federal
9
some state, and by comparison, I think the FCC
10
has done a pretty darn good job. I'll have to
11
admit though that the instant after I go to
12
fcc.gov, I do click the old one.
13
And the one beef I have with the old
14
one, it's a new beef, when you looked at the
15
old site, the upper left has a search engine,
16
search the FCC. You fill in your key word hit
17
it and it goes to another search the FCC and
18
you've got to fill it in again. I'm sure that
19
can be cured.
20
MR. BARTHOLME: Okay.
21
MR. UMANSKY: End of comment.
22
MR. BARTHOLME: So a couple other

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1
things that we had down to bring up and discuss
2
were, you know, how long is the old site going
3
to be there as a transition or is it going to
4
somehow kind of be buried back into a permanent
5
fixture that you just have to do a couple hoops
6
to jump through to access it? You know, will
7
it always say transition.fcc.gov?
8
Some other concerns that we had
9
briefly discussed are kind of the usability
10
aspect of the website, not just from a I'm
11
looking for a specific piece of information and
12
it's hard to find, but when I show up and it
13
is dark blue on black text for different -- you
14
know, like a really good one, I feel like if
15
you could show the computer screen on the screen?
16
Up here in the top right corner, it
17
has got display options in dark blue on black.
18
And for somebody who actually would like to
19
change the appearance, I don't think they are
20
ever going to stumble upon the display options.
21
CHAIR BERLYN: Hum.
22
MR. BARTHOLME: One of the things

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that came up in our call was also the
2
accessibility of the site in different
3
languages. You know, the FCC issues the ability
4
to broadcast in other languages in our country.
5
And, obviously, consumers in our country
6
interact with the FCC sometimes in other
7
languages.
8
There is a little flag up in the top
9
right corner. Most of us didn't even realize
10
that there was any way to get the site into
11
another language until Art Neill pointed out
12
that there is, in fact, a flag in the corner
13
and that if you do click on that flag-- maybe
14
I'm not clicking correctly here.
15
Anyway, if you do click on the flag,
16
it does give you the ability to bring it up in
17
Spanish. As soon as you get it to come up in
18
Spanish, it basically looks like the old website
19
and it's not a translation of the existing
20
website. It's more of a here is a list of all
21
the Spanish resources that we have, so that you
22
can make use of them.

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And, obviously, we would like to see
2
it be that you would actually translate the site,
3
so that the Spanish-speaking user or people in
4
another language had the same experience and
5
the same interaction, not just a list of here
6
is what we have in Spanish that you can make
7
use of potentially. Ken?
8
MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes, I do not know
9
of any website that uses a flag to indicate other
10
languages. I mean, that is just -- I mean, much
11
less something that is an 1/8 of an inch high,
12
I'm not even sure what flag it is. I mean, do
13
you have any idea what flag it is?
14
MR. BARTHOLME: It is the American
15
Flag that is there.
16
MR. McELDOWNEY: But I mean, so that
17
--
18
MR. BARTHOLME: But that --
19
MR. McELDOWNEY: Would anyone,
20
would any consumer who is saying oh, I want
21
something in Chinese, I'm going to click on the
22
American Flag? I mean, it's just -- give me

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1
a break.
2
MR. BARTHOLME: No. I am guessing
3
that it's actually a more common European model
4
where you click on the Great Britain flag or
5
the Spain flag to get the --
6
CHAIR BERLYN: Right, right.
7
MR. McELDOWNEY: Well, no. I mean,
8
Microsoft does this and it is culturally
9
insulting, because for Spanish, they put the
10
flag of Spain.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.
12
MR. McELDOWNEY: Which really goes
13
over big in Mexico I'm sure.
14
MR. BARTHOLME: No, no, and that's
15
what I'm saying. That's where I think it comes
16
from. I don't necessarily know that that
17
translates the best for use in this environment.
18
CHAIR BERLYN: Right.
19
MR. BARTHOLME: Julie?
20
MR. McELDOWNEY: On the other hand,
21
the flag was probably made in China. Sorry.
22
MS. KEARNEY: It's Julie Kearney

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1
from CEA. With all due respect, I think we are
2
really nit-picking here. And I think in terms
3
of translation, which I think there can be some
4
value, so for those of us practitioners, many
5
of us in the room, we really -- a translation
6
of regulations could be potentially perilous,
7
I think, to a lot of people.
8
So I think we need to just be careful
9
getting as far down into the weeds. I think
10
the FCC has done a fabulous job with the site.
11
I will admit I do find the site difficult to
12
navigate, but, you know, I have my personal
13
preferences. And actually, I try not to go back
14
to the old site. I try to like, you know, hang
15
in there, so I can get used to the new site.
16
But, you know, I just warn against
17
getting too nit-picky here.
18
MR. BARTHOLME: If I could just
19
respond to that, Julie. I don't think that our
20
intent or our goal is to, obviously, be
21
excessively nit-picky. I think that part of
22
what we were presented with when the discussion

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about the new website first came about was, this
2
is a tool for outreach.
3
MS. KEARNEY: Right.
4
MR. BARTHOLME: This is a way for
5
the Commission --
6
MS. KEARNEY: Right.
7
MR. BARTHOLME: -- to interact with
8
the public.
9
MS. KEARNEY: Um-hum.
10
MR. BARTHOLME: And I think that the
11
Commission has to realize that when it comes
12
to having an interface in another language, it
13
has to be the same or the people who communicate
14
in that language are going to know that the same
15
attention isn't being given to them as a
16
constituent as someone who has English as their
17
primary language.
18
So I realize that the sensibilities
19
and the practicality of translating a rulemaking
20
procedure are probably not there --
21
MS. KEARNEY: Yes.
22
MR. BARTHOLME: -- as a landing page

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where it is instructing you with how to interact
2
with the FCC or how to file your complaint with
3
the FCC.
4
Those things should be made
5
accessible to everyone. And I think that is
6
the perspective that we are discussing.
7
MS. KEARNEY: Okay.
8
MR. BARTHOLME: The language issue
9
from, not necessarily, you know, can you do every
10
single thing and make sure that it is coming
11
across that way.
12
MS. KEARNEY: Yes.
13
MR. BARTHOLME: Mitsi?
14
MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera. It
15
may be helpful if somebody explained or put in
16
writing what the logic is behind the site
17
reorganization. So, you know, is the idea that
18
we group things by topic? And so if you are
19
looking for it, you search by topic and then
20
you find something.
21
But there is, obviously, some scheme
22
they picked and it's just not really apparent.

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And if you knew that, then maybe it would make
2
it easier to navigate.
3
It's also -- you know, like I looked
4
and you click on -- there used to be -- when
5
we first had our first meeting, there was some
6
portion of this site in which people could vote
7
on things they liked or things they wanted to
8
see and that just sort of has disappeared. So
9
I don't know if -- what happened there.
10
And then it also seems like there
11
is a lot of stuff that is not organized by subject
12
or topic. It's just kind of thrown out there.
13
So it's either just chronologically what we
14
had, the most current thing and it relies on
15
a lot of searching. And I'm concerned that if
16
you don't know the right search term, it won't
17
come up.
18
So if you just made it -- if you made
19
it a little easier like if it is an encyclopedia
20
and I open up on this topic, here is a list of
21
the six things in that topic, as well as a search
22
feature.

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MR. BARTHOLME: Yes. Yes, and I am
2
kind of jumping off from that point. I think
3
that we can all agree, at least I would hope
4
we all agree, that visually it's a much more
5
interesting website to visit.
6
The question is how do we get the
7
usability and the consumer interaction to the
8
point where it still has the same accessibility
9
of information and organization and those sorts
10
of things? Does anybody else have any comments,
11
questions?
12
CHAIR BERLYN: And I think we
13
certainly can continue to take questions and
14
thoughts that you have. The idea here is to
15
develop some questions and ideas that we can
16
pass on to the website folks here and continue
17
the dialogue.
18
So this has been really helpful.
19
Thank you all. This is great. So thanks and
20
thanks, Ed, for walking us through some of this
21
on the screen.
22
Very good. Okay. So we just need

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two minutes for setup and then we will start
2
our next presentation.
3
So our next topic is one that I
4
believe either at our last meeting or in a
5
working group, was one that CAC Members wanted
6
to have addressed at our next meeting. And so
7
we -- Scott was able to have James Bird, Senior
8
Attorney, join us with the Office of General
9
Counsel, Head of Transactions Team, to share
10
with us the "After the Merger," that's the topic
11
here of our discussion, to talk about sort of
12
what happens after a merger.
13
But in this case, so you're going
14
to talk about some specific site, I believe,
15
of a particular merger. And what happens to
16
some of the conditions and that's, I know, of
17
interest to many folks around the room.
18
So thank you very much for coming
19
today and joining us. Thank you.
20
MR. BIRD: Yes, thank you.
21
Actually, I'm planning to give a more general
22
-- I will raise examples from particular

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1
mergers.
2
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Good.
3
MR. BIRD: But I think it is -- as
4
an overall view, it's important to understand.
5
First, thank you very much for inviting me and
6
giving me an opportunity to share with you some
7
ideas about how we approach what happens after
8
a merger has been approved by the FCC.
9
What I would like to do in broad
10
outline, first, as a disclaimer, I'm speaking
11
here -- these are my personal views. These have
12
not been approved by the Commission. But I do
13
have about 12 years experience working on merger
14
reviews and their aftermath at the Agency.
15
What I would like to cover is, first,
16
a brief explanation of the FCC's role in
17
reviewing merger applications here and, in
18
particular, the standard that we apply and the
19
role of conditions that come out of that review.
20
And then look at some of the different types
21
of merger conditions, because that affects how
22
they can be enforced and monitored.

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And then look at the ways the
2
conditions are enforced. And then also look
3
at the way the compliance with conditions as
4
monitored and also the effectiveness of the
5
conditions as monitored. And finally end up
6
with the question of how do you modify existing
7
merger conditions?
8
So first, the FCC's authority to
9
review applications for -- that relate to
10
mergers -- you want that a little closer?
11
Okay. The FCC's authority in most
12
-- the one we rely on primarily is our authority
13
to review transfers of licenses, transfers and
14
assignments of licenses or authorizations that
15
are granted by the Agency.
16
And the standard of review that we
17
apply is is it in the public interest? This
18
is under ' 214 in Title 2 of the Act, and ' 310(d)
19
in Title 3.
20
The public interest standard has a
21
couple components. A very important one is does
22
it comply with the Act itself and the rules that

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1
are issued under the Act?
2
And if it passes that hurdle, then
3
the second thing we look at is what are the
4
potential benefits that could arise from this
5
combination, this transfer? And then we look
6
at what are the potential harms that might arise
7
and we balance the two. And if the benefits
8
outweigh the harms, then we approve the
9
transfer.
10
There are three possible outcomes
11
generally. One, we can approve it. Two, we
12
can approve it with conditions. And three, if
13
we can't do either of those, then we designate
14
it for an administrative hearing before an
15
Administrative Law Judge where all the facts
16
will be subject to courtroom trial-type
17
procedures.
18
So the role of merger conditions in
19
this process is generally twofold. One is a
20
merger condition will help mitigate potential
21
harms. And the other is it can substantiate
22
claimed benefits.

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So that if we get past the first
2
stage, it complies with the statute and rules.
3
We are in the second stage. We are balancing
4
harms and benefits. The merger condition can
5
affect that balance. You know, we say if we--
6
without this condition, we might not approve
7
it, but if we can mitigate the harms with
8
conditions or substantiate benefits, then it
9
will be allowed. So those are the roles that
10
the conditions play. It's fairly important in
11
the Commission's consideration.
12
There are two general types of
13
merger conditions. One are structural
14
conditions. That's like these are often
15
applied in a horizontal merger where you will
16
have two companies that are coming together and
17
decreasing, potentially decreasing, the level
18
of competition in a market.
19
One of the things that can be done
20
is you can look over all the markets these
21
companies are involved with. What we took as
22
an example, when Verizon purchased AllTel,

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Verizon Wireless purchased AllTel, that was two
2
big wireless companies and in some parts of the
3
country that was fine. There was not much
4
overlap. In other parts there was a lot of
5
overlap.
6
And so a structural change is nice
7
in many ways. A one time change. You say
8
divest one or the other where you overlap. So
9
we preserve the existing level of competition.
10
The other kind of a condition is a
11
behavioral or conduct condition where the
12
applicants are told to do something. This
13
creates an obligation on them that they did not
14
have before that will either mitigate a harm
15
or affirm a benefit.
16
And here, there is a much greater
17
variety. It's not just divesting. It can be
18
we would like you to do the following things.
19
We would like you to provide the following
20
services to confirm that you are going to do
21
a benefit.
22
For instance, when Comcast and NBCU

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came before us, that was not a horizontal merger
2
so much as a vertical one. And so divestiture
3
in vertical mergers where you are -- where
4
someone up the supply chain is merging with
5
someone below, the divestiture doesn't work so
6
well. And so you rely more on the conduct
7
conditions.
8
And in that one, they said well, this
9
will result in many benefits. We will have --
10
we will be able to consolidate local programming
11
and have better local programming. We said
12
well, that's nice, but in order to count as a
13
benefit in our merger review, it has to meet
14
certain criteria.
15
It has to be -- we have to be pretty
16
sure it's going to happen. It can't be just
17
an empty promise. And so one way that a merger
18
applicant can prove that it is going to happen
19
is to make an absolute commitment that it will
20
and we will put that in as a merger condition
21
and follow it.
22
So that's one type of condition or

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mitigating harm. If people fear, for instance,
2
that a vertical merger will result in prejudice
3
to competitors at one level or the other, we
4
can put on a condition that will mitigate that
5
harm by requiring the merged entity to act more
6
like they would have acted before the merger.
7
Now, there are different types of
8
merger conditions. And this is the structural
9
and conduct remedies. There are also different
10
ways that the condition can be presented in the
11
order.
12
The order might direct specific
13
conduct. Divestees provide this service. It
14
can also direct specific consequences. In the
15
mergers of the RBOC when they combined, like
16
Bell Atlantic, NYNEX, SBC, Ameritech, there were
17
specific consequences in the merger order that
18
said you should do this to maintain competition
19
or to increase your competition with the
20
remaining companies. And if you don't, then
21
you will pay this fine. And that was specified
22
in the order.

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The order might establish -- many
2
orders
don't
establish
such
specific
3
consequences. The order can alternatively
4
establish a framework for private dispute
5
resolution.
6
When we had the merger between the
7
Hughes Company, which owned DirecTV, and when
8
DirecTV was purchased by News Corporation, that
9
was a vertical merger. And there were some
10
concerns about whether or not there would be
11
discrimination against other programmers and/or
12
the provision of programming to other providers.
13
And the Commission in that case, I
14
think for the first time, established an
15
arbitration remedy, so that the private parties
16
could resolve disputes about that. We said what
17
the standard was and we created a baseball
18
arbitration which is a kind of final offer
19
arbitration which gives a great incentive for
20
the parties to settle, to come closer to each
21
other and then to settle the dispute. So that's
22
another type of condition.

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The order may also include specific
2
reporting obligations to make sure that the
3
applicants are complying with the conditions.
4
And it may provide for termination and it often
5
does.
6
I mean, the conditions generally
7
will last for a fixed period of time. They don't
8
generally go on forever. Sometimes they
9
provide for a re-evaluation at a certain point
10
in time to determine whether it ought to be
11
continued.
12
Okay. The enforcement of merger
13
conditions depends in part on the type of
14
conditions and the provisions in the FCC order
15
that I just described. Some conditions are more
16
or less self-enforcing. The -- for instance,
17
the RBOC merger conditions, if they didn't do
18
such and such, then they would pay a fine. But
19
it was pretty much out there.
20
Another self-enforcing condition
21
can be -- and this is very infrequent and I can
22
only think of one or two examples, which mimic

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a little bit are the provisions in other
2
regulations which say here is the requirement
3
that you must meet. And if you don't meet it,
4
the license goes away. That's Capital
5
Punishment. It's a very extreme condition.
6
That's not usually used.
7
But there are the -- the arbitration
8
remedy is also a kind of self-enforcing
9
condition, because the parties outside will
10
enforce it.
11
Another way that conditions can be
12
enforced is by if someone is not meeting the
13
condition, you can have a complaint to the Bureau
14
or to the Enforcement Bureau. And I understand
15
there is a complaint portal. CGB has a
16
complaint portal where people go on the website
17
and, just as a side comment, it's interesting
18
to follow the presentation on the website,
19
because it has been an issue of a lot of
20
discussion around here as well as outside.
21
But there is an enforcement portal,
22
which I think is fcc.gov/complaint. Not an

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enforcement portal, but a complaint portal that
2
will lead citizens, if they have a complaint
3
about a merger, to the process of how they can
4
register that with the Commission.
5
For monitoring compliance with
6
conditions, some conditions in the merger order
7
itself will provide for monitoring and regular
8
reports, periodic reports by the applicants as
9
to their compliance with the conditions. There
10
were a number of these, for instance, in the
11
Comcast/NBCU order.
12
Another way that things are
13
monitored is by complaints and petitions from
14
interested parties. Some of the conditions are
15
designed so that -- our hope is that there won't
16
be complaints, that people will be complying
17
and then we won't hear about it.
18
But we do have the complaints will
19
come in and that's another way of monitoring.
20
The bureaus, the different bureaus that
21
regulate the various industries keep an eye on
22
things. They are constantly in communication

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with the participants. They get input from
2
citizens who have complaints, so they are
3
constantly monitoring that.
4
And also, the Enforcement Bureau as
5
well has an opportunity to monitor as they look
6
at the complaints that come in.
7
Monitoring the effectiveness of the
8
conditions. This occurs through several
9
mechanisms. One is the relevant industry
10
Bureaus have just their general experience and
11
their oversight as they watch what is happening
12
out there in the industry.
13
They are well-aware of what was
14
stated would ge a potential harm or benefit from
15
a merger transaction. And as they observe going
16
forward, they see is the condition working?
17
Isn't it working?
18
A good measure is the complaints
19
that are received. If they get a lot of
20
complaints, that indicates there is a problem
21
with the condition. Now, the complaints may
22
be you put all these conditions on and it's still

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having a problem, so they can get that kind of
2
feedback.
3
Another
way
we
monitor
4
effectiveness is through other proceedings.
5
There are several competition reports that are
6
required by our statute on an annual basis or
7
other periodic bases and those -- as they look
8
at the quality of competition in the industry,
9
one of the things that they will take into
10
account is how well are things working,
11
including are the merger conditions that were
12
put on as concentration increased doing what
13
they were intended to do?
14
Perhaps one of the most effective
15
ways of looking back and measuring effectiveness
16
is the next merger comes along, a similar issue
17
is presented. And we will get -- first of all,
18
the Agency itself is very concerned about what
19
-- how to address these new problems, so we will
20
look back at our own experience and judge it,
21
but also the filings that come in.
22
If
the
condition
has
been

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successful, the filings will say, please, put
2
something like that on this one, too. If it
3
has been unsuccessful, they will say well, that
4
didn't work, they something else or make these
5
modifications in light of the experience you
6
have had.
7
And we have done this, I know with
8
the arbitration remedy. We have tinkered with
9
that to try to address some of the concerns that
10
have come up.
11
Finally,
modifying
merger
12
conditions. Conditions are placed on at the
13
time of the merger. The market place in all
14
of the markets we
regulate is changing
15
constantly with technology and other things.
16
So it is sometimes necessary to monitor them.
17
There are changed conditions that make what
18
was once an appropriate condition, no longer
19
appropriate.
20
There are also disputes that arise
21
over the ambiguities in the language of a
22
condition. And people can come in at any time

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and petition the Commission to modify a
2
condition on a merger. We don't -- this doesn't
3
happy that frequently. We do get with some
4
frequency requests to clarify.
5
You
know, because often these
6
conditions are put on at a time when no one really
7
knows what is going to happen when these
8
companies combine, when there is that change
9
in the marketplace. And so the conditions are
10
written on the basis of what is potential, what
11
is going to happen. And when actual experience
12
starts happening, often it will -- things will
13
come up that were not anticipated at the time
14
the condition was written.
15
So there might be an ambiguity or
16
a need to revise a condition in some way. And
17
that is done through the modification.
18
So that's the kind of very quick run
19
through of the general structure and I'll be
20
glad to answer any questions.
21
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you. That was
22
very informative. Paul and then Claude.

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MR. SCHROEDER: Thanks.
Paul
2
Schroeder with the American Foundation for the
3
Blind.
4
I know that the Disability Work
5
Group had raised this issue partly out of concern
6
that disability issues were not, in our view,
7
being considered as part of merger conditions.
8
And that may be because we haven't been pushing
9
them hard enough. But I wonder if you could
10
speak to how -- well, first of all, have there
11
been, to your knowledge, conditions that related
12
to accessibility?
13
I believe I have read somewhere that
14
there are things like deployment of advance
15
services, ensuring the diversity of information
16
sources and services to the public, those kinds
17
of things are considered generally in the
18
mergers as well as advancing technology, quality
19
of communication services.
20
So there is plenty of ways in which
21
accessibility ought to be considered. And I
22
know we did -- several of us did put in letters

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for a recent telecom merger where one company
2
clearly had a superior record of accessibility.
3
To a second though, you know, both
4
could certainly use improvement. And that
5
would have been a good opportunity for the FCC
6
to make a very clear statement of disability
7
access as part of the condition.
8
So (A) has that ever been done, to
9
your knowledge? And (B) how can we best
10
intervene to make that happen? And I guess (C)
11
is there something that CAC ought to do about
12
that?
13
MR. BIRD: Thank you. Good
14
question. I am struggling to remember where
15
I have actually seen a condition addressing
16
disabilities. You are correct that that is part
17
of the general public interest mandate put upon
18
us by Congress. So it's certainly an
19
appropriate question to raise.
20
One of the questions that comes up
21
frequently is, with respect to conditions, are
22
they specific to the merger? In other words,

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is the merger creating a problem that this
2
condition is necessary to fix?
3
And the example that you raised is
4
a good one, I think, where you say these two
5
companies are merging. One of them has a better
6
record. If it is the company that is the
7
purchasing company, that would be a good thing.
8
But I know that in some companies, I think,
9
when -- I'm thinking CenturyLink, Embarq or the
10
one that preceded that was CenturyTel, Embarq
11
or CenturyLink when there were two records and
12
companies with respect to issues of consumer
13
service and performance.
14
The Commission did put some
15
conditions on that, so that would have -- I think
16
it's an appropriate issue to raise. And I would
17
encourage you to do it. It is important to raise
18
it in the context of the proceeding. But I think
19
there is a basis for that.
20
CHAIR BERLYN: Clause?
21
MR. STOUT: Hi, this is Claude. I
22
would like to build on what Mark just mentioned

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or excuse me, Paul just mentioned. First of
2
all, the FCC did address disability issues
3
historically. We remember when AOL combined
4
with Time-Warner and the Time-Warner/ AOL, I'm
5
not sure who was the purchasing company and who
6
was the purchased company there.
7
But the FCC made it clear to AOL that
8
they had to make their instant messenger
9
services interoperable with other services.
10
That was a big get for the disability community.
11
And I would hope that your office moving forward
12
when you are considering merger applications,
13
you can make that a regular item on your
14
checklist, because companies should be actively
15
pursuing hiring of disabled employees, making
16
sure that their products and services are
17
accessible to disabled consumers.
18
And that way, you are helping to
19
serve the public interest, because we are part
20
of the public. And the public interest is in
21
our interest. And I want to thank you for that.
22
MR. BIRD: Thank you. Yes, I

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remember AOL/Time-Warner.
2
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. That's okay.
3
Yes, yes? Oh, I wasn't sure up or down. Ken?
4
MR. McELDOWNEY: Hi. I may be a
5
little bit off point here, but we work a lot
6
with banks when they are going through mergers.
7
And the regulatory agencies will suppose or,
8
you know, impose things and I guess the banks
9
will indicate what they will be doing in terms
10
of serving the public interest.
11
And part of that is in terms of what
12
foundation -- what they are going to be doing
13
in terms of the combined foundation, what they
14
will be doing maybe in terms of educational
15
programs with the community, commitments to
16
diversity and things like that.
17
Is this ever addressed in merger
18
proposals that come to the FCC?
19
MR. BIRD: Yes. In fact, if you
20
look at the conditions in the Comcast/NBCU
21
merger, there were a number of conditions that
22
addressed the public interest part of our

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standard that involves providing the paid
2
programming, it's public access, education and
3
government programming, children's television
4
was addressed and has been addressed in a couple
5
of the mergers.
6
But that is definitely one of the
7
services to the community, particularly in
8
broadcast mergers is a topic that is often
9
addressed in the merger.
10
MR. McELDOWNEY: Yes. I have seen
11
it in broadcast, but has that been done when
12
telecom mergers have been approved?
13
MR. BIRD: I think the conditions
14
on telecom mergers primarily address the
15
provision of the service, getting the service
16
out and preserving competition in that
17
marketplace. USF, however, which is the public
18
interest part of getting this service out does
19
come up in merger conditions. And I think in
20
AllTel, Verizon/AllTel there was a specific
21
condition about that.
22
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Do you have

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a question, Mitsi?
2
MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera.
3
CHAIR BERLYN: I think you are on.
4
MS. HERRERA: Montgomery County,
5
MD. Is it on? My question is can you talk about
6
the process for after you impose the merger
7
conditions, how you monitor compliance?
8
Earlier this morning, I talked about one of the
9
conditions of Comcast merger with NBC Universal.
10
Was it they offer certain things? They have
11
a three year cycle in which they have to do these
12
things. It has not gone well the first year.
13
So what happens both from that
14
perspective of just the overall compliance
15
picture?
16
And then it seems to me that some
17
times in these mergers, there are conditions
18
that are imposed, but there wasn't a lot of
19
research that went into the benchmarks that are
20
set.
21
So, for example, using school lunch
22
as a benchmark for income eligibility. It turns

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1
out that there are lots of problems engaged in
2
that. So does the Bureau do something so that
3
you kind of learn from those lessons if we have
4
a similar or another type of thing that we have
5
got a way that we don't keep making the same
6
difficult to monitor conditions as part of them?
7
MR. BIRD: Okay. Well, a couple of
8
answers. One is I'm not -- I'll have to look
9
at that specific Comcast condition, but I know
10
that in a number of the conditions like that
11
one in Comcast, there were quarterly reports
12
due from the applicant.
13
Now, if the quarterly report shows
14
they are not meeting the conditions, then that's
15
an action item for either the Bureau or the
16
Enforcement Bureau to take action to stimulate
17
them to comply with the condition. There are
18
those sanctions which can be applied if they
19
are not complying.
20
MS. HERRERA: So I'm sorry, do --
21
the sanctions are those things that have to be
22
put into the merger itself as an enforcement

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or is there sort of a standing set? Because
2
they have already gone and merged.
3
MR. BIRD: Right. No, the
4
enforcement -- once an order comes out, it's
5
an order of the Commission. If they are not
6
complying with the condition, they are violating
7
an order of the Commission and the Enforcement
8
Bureau has authority to enforce with the
9
sanctions that are available to them.
10
The second question about learning
11
from experience, that's a great question. And
12
we do learn from experience. It is very helpful
13
to us to have input from the public, because
14
you will see things that sometimes we don't see.
15
So if you would -- you know, if you say just
16
let us know if something is not working, if the
17
measure is wrong, just let us know about that,
18
because that's -- we do want to learn from that.
19
We want the conditions to be effective.
20
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Great.
21
Well, thank you very much. I appreciate your
22
coming here --

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MR. BIRD: Thank you.
2
CHAIR BERLYN: -- and giving us that
3
report. Thank you.
4
(Applause)
5
CHAIR BERLYN: We now have our
6
working groups and Scott is going to come and
7
tell us where we are going. Hold for
8
instructions. So we have until 3:00 for our
9
working groups, which includes a short break.
10
You can take it before your working group, after
11
your working group, but we will be meeting back
12
here promptly at 3:00.
13
So it is now 2:00. Paul, can you
14
give Scott your mike there?
15
MR. SCHROEDER: Yes.
16
CHAIR BERLYN: So he --
17
MR. SCHROEDER: Coming your way.
18
CHAIR BERLYN: Sorry, sorry there,
19
Scott.
20
MR. MARSHALL: Not to worry. Hang
21
on one second. This is Scott and I'll be right
22
with you.

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CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.
2
MR. LEWIS: This is Clayton. Would
3
it be possible for me to get patched into the
4
Disability Working Group?
5
MR. MARSHALL: Yes. If you call in
6
on the -- or hang on that number that you are
7
on now, yes, you can participate.
8
MR. LEWIS: Sounds good. Thanks.
9
MR. MARSHALL: It's like no
10
problem. All right. Let's see, I'm sorry.
11
Yes, we have breakouts. Right across the hall
12
here without going upstairs or anything of that
13
sort, that would be on your left hand side just
14
go past the intersecting hallway where the
15
restrooms are, keep going straight and that's
16
TWA-402 and 442, that's adjoining rooms.
17
And then going up the --
18
CHAIR BERLYN: Scott?
19
MR. MARSHALL: Yes?
20
CHAIR BERLYN: Which one are we
21
going to have in there?
22
MR. MARSHALL: Oh, okay. All

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right. Oh, I'm sorry. Picky, picky, a minor
2
detail, a minor detail.
3
CHAIR BERLYN: Well, first of all,
4
we are going to have disability stay --
5
MR. MARSHALL: Disability will stay
6
here.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: -- here. Okay.
8
MR. MARSHALL: Because of the
9
captioning availability and all that sort of
10
stuff.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.
12
MR. MARSHALL: Who else wants to
13
meet, first of all?
14
CHAIR BERLYN: Media. Media
15
Working Group is going to meet, so shall we put
16
them in the first --
17
MR. MARSHALL: Yes, one of those
18
rooms, yes.
19
CHAIR BERLYN: -- one then?
20
MR. MARSHALL: That would be fine.
21
CHAIR BERLYN: In 402?
22
MR. MARSHALL: 402.

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CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.
2
MR. MARSHALL: That would work.
3
Media 402. Broadband, do you want to meet?
4
MR. BARTHOLME: We'll stay here.
5
MR. MARSHALL: Okay. Well, you do
6
have a choice.
7
MR. BARTHOLME: We could take a long
8
break though.
9
MR. MARSHALL: You are pretty big,
10
so you should probably go up to 468, which is
11
up the stairway and to your right.
12
CHAIR BERLYN: Right.
13
MR. MARSHALL: Up the stairway and
14
then make a right and then it will be on your
15
right, that's TWC-468. Okay. And anybody else
16
want to meet? Universal Service? Okay.
17
Universal Service, why don't you do 442, which
18
is right next to 402.
19
CHAIR BERLYN: Right.
20
MR. MARSHALL: And then --
21
CHAIR BERLYN: Consumer wants to
22
meet.

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MR. MARSHALL: -- Consumer, you
2
have a choice. You can either stay here at the
3
other end of this room or the only other rooms
4
I have available are on the second floor and
5
that's not a problem, but you will need one of
6
us to guide you up there to get through the locked
7
doors and all that kind of stuff.
8
MR. BARTHOLME: We will happily
9
stay here.
10
MR. MARSHALL: You'll happily stay
11
here. All right. So I guess that takes care
12
of it. All right. Thanks, everybody. We will
13
see you around 3:00.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Okay.
15
That works.
16
(Whereupon, at 2:06 p.m. a recess
17
until 3:10 p.m.)
18
CHAIR BERLYN: We are going to jump
19
right into our working group reports and action.
20
I'm going to call on the Disability Working
21
Group first and, Lise, if you could report back
22
and share some information with us?

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MS. HAMLIN: Okay. Thank you.
2
This is Lise Hamlin from Hearing Loss
3
Association. We are going to give a quick
4
report of the whole committee and then Rebecca
5
Ladew had sent out, through Scott's email to
6
you, a report on speech-to-speech and she will
7
give a real -- we will both do real brief updates
8
on where we are here.
9
First, I wanted to give you a heads
10
up on right now we have not brought
11
recommendations, but we are planning to for our
12
last meeting in October. So we are going to
13
be catching up here. So we expect to have a
14
recommendation on speech-to-speech.
15
We will be also working on a new
16
issue which is accessible textbooks. There are
17
now textbooks coming out that have, the
18
eTextbooks that have video on audible content.
19
And we will put together a recommendation for
20
that as well that we can bring forward.
21
We are going to also take a look at
22
mobile health care, the same kind of problems,

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so that -- remote health care, so there are
2
problems with access to, so we are going to take
3
a look at that and see if there is a
4
recommendation that may or may not come out.
5
We are going to take a look at that.
6
And finally, we are also looking at
7
what is happening with mobile captioning and
8
new entries into the marketplace and how we can
9
recommend -- how the FCC can facilitate that.
10
There was also some discussion now
11
with -- we are not sure we are going to come
12
up a recommendation on this, but you should be
13
aware that now that video description is getting
14
on board and we are going forward with CVAA,
15
monitoring of compliance with the new rules is
16
going to be an issue.
17
So I think what will happen from the
18
Disability Working Group is we will take a look
19
at how that is happening, what -- how we can
20
see that people are actually fulfilling their
21
obligations. And if at some point in the future
22
we feel that we need a recommendation on that,

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we may come forward with that as well.
2
We also just landed -- Clayton is
3
moving to the Department of Ed.
4
CHAIR BERLYN: Oh really?
5
MS. HAMLIN: Yes. I hope that was
6
public, Clayton. Ken told our group. So we
7
are losing him from the group, but we wish him
8
well and we want to thank him for all his work
9
on the group. And so now, I'm going to turn
10
it over to Rebecca for her report on
11
speech-to-speech.
12
MS. LADEW: Hi. If the FCC wants
13
individuals with speech disabilities to enjoy
14
connectivity with others under the Broadband
15
Program, the Wide Area Network, then the FCC
16
should start thinking about installing the rules
17
and regulations for speech-to-speech that were
18
proposed under the 1998 Notice of Proposed
19
Rulemaking.
20
It is urgent that these rules and
21
regulations be installed or replaced to meet
22
the 21st Century technological advances.

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Also, updating the rules and
2
regulations will assist in adding a new service
3
that the speech disabled community would like
4
to
have
installed,
video-assisted
5
speech-to-speech.
6
There is a video speech-to-speech
7
trial going on in Virginia that I will be
8
participating in. California recently had its
9
trial. Hopefully more states will follow suit.
10
Updating the rules and regulations
11
for speech-to-speech and the installation of
12
video speech-to-speech would greatly enhance
13
the Next Generation 911 services for the speech
14
disabled community.
15
It is hoped that the Disabilities
16
Working Group and the full CAC will give its
17
full support on this issue.
18
CHAIR BERLYN: Great. Thank you
19
very much, Lise and Rebecca. I appreciate that
20
and appreciate your report and the work that
21
your working group is doing. Thank you. I see
22
Ed is still working with his group back there.

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The working group is still working. Shall we
2
-- we are going to skip the Consumer Empowerment
3
Working Group for now.
4
And, Barry, are you ready to report?
5
I see you at your computer there.
6
MR. UMANSKY: What we have arrived
7
from this today, we have --
8
PARTICIPANT: The mike.
9
MR. UMANSKY: Hello? We have
10
decided to defer until October. A matter
11
dealing with political broadcast advertising
12
disclosure, it's clear this is not a good time
13
for -- to expect any resolution or changes by
14
the FCC nor the Congress. So stay tuned for
15
that in October.
16
Oh, you do have before you, and they
17
are both in your packet, two documents. One
18
has been edited and we are going to put it on
19
the screen in a few minutes. Okay. Any more
20
and I'll be eating it. I think this is not on.
21
Hello?
22
PARTICIPANT: The switch.

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CHAIR BERLYN: Maybe raise your
2
hand. No, I think it's working.
3
MR. UMANSKY: I've raised all seven
4
hands here.
5
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Yes.
6
MR. UMANSKY: Okay.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: You have a great
8
voice, but it's --
9
MR. UMANSKY: Are you there yet?
10
PARTICIPANT: Do you want to try
11
this one?
12
CHAIR BERLYN: No, I think it's
13
working.
14
PARTICIPANT: Okay.
15
MR. UMANSKY: Okay. I will just
16
spare you a repeat. What we have before you
17
now, two recommendations. One deals with
18
emergency messaging. And you might recall at
19
an earlier CAC meeting, we were talking about
20
the results of the First National Test of the
21
Emergency Alert System.
22
And in the original presentation,

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we talked about how people watching over
2
multi-channel video providers, some might have
3
some difficulty if they were hearing impaired.
4
During the course of the discussion,
5
there was a consensus developed that when it
6
comes to emergency alerting and emergency
7
communications, through EAS or other means, that
8
this group has an interest in everyone being
9
able to receive them, regardless of whether they
10
might be hearing-impaired, visually-impaired
11
or part of the deaf/blind community.
12
That was fine and that was our
13
recommendation from last year.
14
Now, we are looking at other changes
15
in the emergency alerting. Kicking in later
16
this month is the new requirement for what's
17
called Common Alerting Protocol. It's a
18
technology to be adopted now by broadcast
19
stations and multi-channel providers.
20
It seems clear that down the road
21
a technology like this will be applied to mobile
22
wireless services, perhaps even to social media,

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all with the goal of ensuring that members of
2
the public, when there is an alerting message
3
to be distributed, have a fighting chance of
4
hearing it, seeing it, sensing it.
5
So the recommendation we have for
6
you just looks to what is happening now with
7
the Common Alerting Protocol and looking to the
8
future of other technologies. I have talked
9
to many people here. I have talked to members
10
of our working group and other members of the
11
CAC, in general, and there seems to be a
12
consensus and support and we certainly accept
13
any discussion or recommendations on that one.
14
Is there a motion?
15
CHAIR BERLYN: Motion to --
16
MR. UMANSKY: Accept.
17
CHAIR BERLYN: --
accept the
18
recommendation from the floor? A motion?
19
MR. UMANSKY: Thank you. Is there
20
a second?
21
CHAIR BERLYN: Can people verbalize
22
this as well?

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MR. UMANSKY: It was Mitsi Herrera.
2
CHAIR
BERLYN:

Okay.

So
3
discussion on the recommendation? Any
4
discussion? Lise?
5
MS. HAMLIN: Can I --
6
CHAIR BERLYN: Lise, raise your
7
hand.
8
MS. HAMLIN: Can I just ask where
9
this is in our -- is it in our packet?
10
MR. UMANSKY: Yes, it is.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: It is in the packet.
12
MS. HAMLIN: Which one is it? What
13
does it say on top?
14
MR. UMANSKY: Well, it says -- the
15
heading is "FCC Consumer Advisory Committee
16
Further Recommendation Regarding the Provision
17
of Emergency Messages to the Public." We sent
18
this draft to Scott many days ago and then many
19
days ago he --
20
CHAIR BERLYN: It's in there.
21
MR.
UMANSKY:

--
sent
it
22
electronically and you have hard copies in your

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packet.
2
CHAIR BERLYN: It's in there. Do
3
you see it, Lise?
4
MR. UMANSKY: You got an email from
5
Scott about three or four days ago with this
6
document and it's also in hard copy in the
7
packet.
8
CHAIR BERLYN: The hard copy is in
9
the packet.
10
MR. UMANSKY: Okay. Thank you.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: Any -- oh, Mitsi?
12
MS. HERRERA: Mitsi Herrera,
13
Montgomery County. I don't have any -- I think
14
it's a good effort and I don't have any objection
15
to it. I would just say that if it's possible
16
for looking at, at some point, what the FCC
17
has done with our recommendations, it may be
18
useful that you recast this as the CAC recommends
19
one, two, three, four, because you have now got
20
four items in here, two are numbered.
21
MR. UMANSKY: Okay. The first
22
paragraph describes what we did before. I think

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what we should recommend though is that when
2
we get back together in October, that we have
3
representatives from the Commission's staff
4
talk about their assessment of the EAS National
5
Test, the effectiveness of the Common Alerting
6
Protocol and perhaps give us a glimpse of how,
7
in the future, there may be additional ways of
8
alerting the public to emergency information.
9
Okay. All right.
10
CHAIR
BERLYN:

Any
further
11
discussion? Okay. I'll call the question.
12
All those in favor say aye.
13
ALL: Aye.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: Any opposed? I'm
15
sorry? Oh, okay. Any abstentions? Okay. No
16
abstentions, Scott. And no opposed.
17
MR. UMANSKY: Okay. For the next
18
presentation, if we could ask those in the booth
19
to put the -- there we go. Great. What I have
20
done is split this up, so that people can see
21
it in very large print.
22
What we have done is taken the second

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1
recommendation that the working group, our Media
2
Working Group, has advanced to you and we have
3
shortened it, tightened it and made it a little
4
more consumer-focused.
5
The opening paragraph is the same,
6
given the background of how the Commission is
7
responding to --
8
PARTICIPANT: Is this the Spectrum?
9
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.
10
MR. UMANSKY: It certainly is.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: This is the --
12
MR. UMANSKY: That's the only one
13
left to talk about.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, would you just
15
read the header, that might -- just so people
16
can find it in their packet?
17
MR. UMANSKY: Yes, there you go.
18
"FCC Consumer Advisory Committee Recommendation
19
Regarding
Spectrum
Reallocation
and
20
Reauthorization." Okay.
21
MR. MARSHALL: Barry, did I
22
understand you correctly, what you are

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presenting now is different than what was
2
distributed --
3
MR. UMANSKY: Right. What we have
4
done --
5
MR. MARSHALL: -- in the packet?
6
Okay. Go ahead.
7
MR. UMANSKY: --
we have had
8
meetings of --
9
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, changes.
10
MR. MARSHALL: Yes.
11
MR. UMANSKY: -- our Media Working
12
Group.
13
MR. MARSHALL: Yes.
14
MR. UMANSKY: We have consulted
15
with others and we are offering for you,
16
basically, something that will take this screen,
17
another page and then one sentence. So we put
18
it in large print.
19
The first paragraph is what you have
20
seen verbatim from the original recommendation.
21
So we move to the next page, it says "Whereas,
22
the public has an interest in both the expansion

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of wireless broadband services and the continued
2
provision of valuable over-the-air television
3
broadcast services and local stations.
4
Therefore, be it resolved that the FCC's
5
Consumer Advisory Committee, CAC" --
6
PARTICIPANT: Slow down.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, slow down just
8
a bit.
9
PARTICIPANT: Our interpreter is
10
interpreting.
11
MR. UMANSKY: Oh, I'm sorry. CAC.
12
PARTICIPANT: Don't mumble and slow
13
down.
14
MR. UMANSKY: Although, it's on the
15
screen.
16
PARTICIPANT: Okay.
17
MR. UMANSKY: And even those at home
18
--
19
CHAIR BERLYN: Some may -- yes.
20
MR. UMANSKY: -- see it on the
21
screen.
22
CHAIR BERLYN: Some may not be able

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to do that.
2
MR. UMANSKY: Okay. Again,
3
nothing has changed up to the paragraph that
4
is on your screen. Let's start out, "urges that
5
consistent with the terms of the," and this is
6
the legislation discussed earlier by the FCC
7
staff, "Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation
8
Act of 2012. FCC regulatory proceedings to
9
reallocate and reauthorize portions of the
10
Spectrum heretofore used for over-the-air
11
television broadcasting, in short, one, that
12
the impact to television viewers is minimized,
13
while at the same time maximizing benefits to
14
wireless consumers.
15
And
two,
that
terrestrial
16
television stations, terrestrial stations
17
retain the ability to offer and consumers retain
18
the ability to benefit from high definition,
19
multi-cast programming and innovative new
20
services, such as mobile DTV."
21
That is the recommendation offered
22
for you. It has been approved by the Media

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Working Group and of others with whom we have
2
spoken today.
3
CHAIR BERLYN: Do --
4
MR. UMANSKY: Put it back up.
5
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, put it back on
6
the screen while we are talking about it. Do
7
I have a motion to move the recommendation?
8
I need a motion from the floor before discussion.
9
I have a motion to move it from Mary. Second?
10
MS. LEECH: Second.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: And I have a second
12
from Irene. Discussion? Scott, I saw your
13
card go up first. Scott, raise your hand and
14
pull the mike.
15
MR. BERGMANN: I forget every time.
16
CHAIR BERLYN: Raise your hand.
17
MR. BERGMANN: Sorry about that.
18
Scott Bergmann from CTIA. Can everybody hear
19
me okay now?
20
CHAIR BERLYN: I think so.
21
MR. BERGMANN: So I just have -- I'm
22
not on the Media Working Group, but I wanted

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to thank the members of the Media Working Group
2
for trying to refocus this recommendation a
3
little bit more towards consumers. So I
4
appreciate that.
5
And I guess, to that note, I wanted
6
to suggest that the second recommendation has
7
added the concept of consumers by consumers
8
retaining the ability to benefit da, da, da.
9
But I wanted to ask about that first part of
10
Recommendation No. 2, which talks about
11
terrestrial stations retaining the ability to
12
offer.
13
And it seems to me like that would
14
depend on which options a broadcast station
15
chose under the new Act, right? The Act
16
provides a variety of different things.
17
So I guess my recommendation -- and
18
some of them are inconsistent with that, right?
19
If someone chose to really push their Spectrum
20
or to channel share, they might not retain that
21
ability.
22
So I guess my recommendation would

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be to start No. 2 with a focus on consumers.
2
So, you know, as you guys have really nicely
3
captured with No. 1, I think you have recognized
4
there is a balance, right? There is going to
5
be upside to consumers and you also want to
6
minimize disruption to them as well, too.
7
And I guess I would encourage folks
8
to orient the second recommendation to consumers
9
as well, too. So just to flow No. 2 from
10
consumers retaining the ability to benefit from
11
those services that you guys listed there as
12
well, too.
13
So I guess that was thought one.
14
And thought two was just to make sure -- I think
15
the intent of this recommendation is to be
16
consistent with the Act that was passed and --
17
which reflects a balancing of different public
18
policy benefits one way or the other. And I
19
just wanted to make sure that that was the case.
20
And if it's not the case, to find out. So those
21
were my two comments.
22
Again, thank you guys for being

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willing to -- particularly given that this is
2
a Consumer Advisory Committee focused on the
3
consumer perspective on this recommendation.
4
MR. UMANSKY: Yes?
5
MS. KEARNEY: This is Julie Kearney
6
from CEA. And I think Mitsi and I are both a
7
little confused. What is our goal with this
8
recommendation? Because the statute, you know,
9
gives the Commission some very clear direction
10
on what --
11
MR. UMANSKY: It does.
12
MS. KEARNEY: -- they are to do.
13
So are we -- I would like just to understand
14
further, do we need to tell the Commission what
15
they need to do?
16
MR. UMANSKY: No. I think there is
17
a couple of very clear consumer elements of that,
18
you know, Middle Class Tax Cut Extension. And
19
this recommendation is keyed to and suggests
20
the Commission, of course, will follow the lead,
21
the mandate of Congress.
22
But to point out how there are

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consumer benefits here, isn't just an
2
industry-wide issue.
3
MS. KEARNEY: Do --
4
MR. UMANSKY: That --
5
MS. KEARNEY: Okay. I guess my
6
question is do we do this with every piece of
7
legislation that comes down? Did we do this
8
with CVAA, telling the Commission to follow what
9
Congress told them to do? I just wonder what
10
the -- you know, what do we want them to do?
11
MR. UMANSKY: The expression of the
12
desires of the Consumer Advisory Committee.
13
It need not replicate every element of every
14
statute, but it's simply an expression of their
15
interest in the matter.
16
CHAIR BERLYN: Mitsi?
17
MS. HERRERA: Okay. So beyond the
18
fact that it is -- I'm not really clear what
19
the value-added necessary consumer spin of it
20
is. But substantively, I am somewhat concerned
21
that impact on viewers is minimized is a somewhat
22
murky and nebulous term. And I don't

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necessarily -- I mean, I haven't been in the
2
Media Working Group.
3
MR. UMANSKY: Right.
4
MS. HERRERA: But to some extent,
5
over-the-air broadcast is the least efficient
6
use of Spectrum. And to -- and there is only,
7
what is it, under 10 percent of people who have
8
televisions use over-the-air --
9
MR. UMANSKY: Right.
10
MS. HERRERA: -- to receive those.
11
So I'm not necessarily sure that protecting
12
the right of those 10 percent of the population
13
to continue to get it over-the-air is something
14
that -- and the impact on them has to be minimized
15
in moving forward with wireless broadband.
16
MR. UMANSKY: Well, for better or
17
for worse, that's what the statute requires,
18
that there are people that their only choice
19
is over-the-air television. That quantum will
20
probably continue for quite a while.
21
MS. HERRERA: So --
22
MR. UMANSKY: There is nothing in

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this statement that is antithetical to what the
2
Congress has directed the FCC to do.
3
MS. HERRERA: Okay. So I have not
4
reviewed the statute in any -- I haven't reviewed
5
it at all. So can you point out in that -- in
6
the resolution what is the resolution stating
7
that goes beyond what the statute directs the
8
FCC to do?
9
MR. UMANSKY: Nothing.
10
CHAIR BERLYN: Can we put it back
11
up on the screen? Thank you.
12
MS. HERRERA: Then I'm not really
13
understanding --
14
MR. UMANSKY: It is --
15
MS. HERRERA: -- then why we are
16
submitting it. If it's -- I mean, most of the
17
things that we have had have sort of been
18
pointing out things that have fallen through
19
the cracks or raising the awareness of specific
20
things from, in a lot of ways, a consumer and
21
a user perspective that sometimes people at the
22
top don't look at.

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And I'm just trying to understand.
2
Is it that because we want to be engaged on
3
the issue with the FCC? Because one of the
4
things we talked about was looking to see how
5
the
FCC
dealt
specifically
with
the
6
recommendations that we gave.
7
MR. UMANSKY: Right.
8
MS. HERRERA: So if we are sort of
9
just giving a recommendation that says we
10
resolve that you should follow the statute, I'm
11
-- it makes it difficult, I think, to look to
12
see the value that we have created and provided.
13
MR. UMANSKY: I have looked at the
14
last 11 or 12 years worth of recommendations
15
coming from this Advisory Committee. And in
16
many issues, the Advisory Committee simply
17
expresses its opinion, its views, which in some
18
cases are completely congruent with what
19
relevant statutes are and the thrust of FCC
20
proceedings.
21
But that has not barred this
22
Committee from expressing itself on issues it

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considers to be important to consumers. This
2
would not be breaking new ground in terms of
3
the role of the Consumer Advisory Committee at
4
all.
5
It would be an expression of a
6
viewpoint and a direction. And it is not
7
antithetical to the terms of the statute. Ann?
8
CHAIR BERLYN: I have Ann and then
9
Luisa.
10
MS. BOBECK: Hi, Ann Bobeck with the
11
National Association of Broadcasters. I just
12
want to point out it is entirely consistent with
13
the statute to promote advance wireless
14
broadband service in terms of availability of
15
Spectrum, but also crucial to the point to
16
preserve free over-the-air television --
17
MR. UMANSKY: Right.
18
MS. BOBECK: -- to the 46 million
19
television sets and the people that are reliant
20
on free over-the-air television. Remember who
21
those people are. It is the elderly, Hispanic.
22
It is often the low-income folks, persons with

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disabilities.
2
So to say that it is not efficient,
3
I honestly take disagreement that a one-to-many
4
service is not an efficient use of Spectrum.
5
We can have an off-line discussion that.
6
But,
you
know,
the
statute
7
recognized the value of both services and I would
8
think that if you took a poll around this table
9
and all the folks that went through the DTV
10
transition, then -- and the 95 out of the top
11
100 programs that are on broadcast television
12
as the most popular television programs, I think
13
a lot of consumers do value free over-the-air
14
television.
15
So I think it is important as the
16
Advisory Committee that should we want to value
17
a Spectrum reallocation, that it is important
18
that anything that remains post-reallocation
19
as we repack the broadcast Spectrum, that
20
consumers don't lose that access, particularly
21
those at-risk consumers.
22
I think that's the intent of the

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recommendation, to recognize there is value in
2
freeing up in a Spectrum Incentive Auction for
3
new services, but not disenfranchise consumers
4
in the process. I think that's an important
5
public policy goal for this Advisory Committee
6
to recognize.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: Luisa?
8
MS. LANCETTI: Luisa Lancetti.
9
Obviously, my company is --
10
CHAIR BERLYN: Just raise your hand
11
and identify yourself.
12
MS. LANCETTI: My company is very
13
keen, obviously, on Spectrum matters and was
14
involved in trying to fashion effective Spectrum
15
legislation that can now be the basis for these
16
important Commission proceedings.
17
With that said, I am worried that
18
there be unintended consequences here, because
19
I do hear on one hand the notion that this is
20
only meant to confirm what the statute is
21
requiring and, therefore, the Commission should
22
be guided by and implementing the legislation.

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But then other comments suggesting
2
that no, perhaps this should go beyond that in
3
terms of the consumer impacts and issues.
4
So with that said, and having not
5
been involved in the Media Group deliberations,
6
I'm a little concerned that, again, we not have
7
unintended consequences as a result of this
8
resolution.
9
CHAIR BERLYN: Paul and then Julie
10
again. Paul needs a mike. Can someone --
11
MR. SCHROEDER: Am I stealing from
12
you, Barry? Uh-oh. Well, now, Paul Schroeder,
13
American Foundation for the Blind.
14
I have got the old language here in
15
front of me, but can -- before I say anything
16
further, can you remind me what the new language
17
says in the section that referred, it was Item
18
No. 2, under the therefores, high definition,
19
multi-cast
programming,
innovative
new
20
services, mobile DTV, etcetera?
21
MR. UMANSKY: Right. Okay.
22
CHAIR BERLYN: Barry?

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MR. UMANSKY: I would say that --
2
CHAIR BERLYN: Barry, pull the mike
3
up.
4
MR. UMANSKY: Again, according to
5
the legislation itself, that the proceedings
6
of the Commission to reallocate or reauthorize
7
portions of the Spectrum heretofore used for
8
over-the-air television broadcasting ensure:
9
(1) That the impact to television viewers is
10
minimized while at the same time maximizing
11
benefits for wireless consumers.
12
And (2), which I think is your focus,
13
that terrestrial stations retain the ability
14
to offer and consumers retain the ability to
15
benefit from high definition, multi-cast
16
programming and innovative new services, such
17
as mobile DTV.
18
MR. SCHROEDER: Right. Paul
19
Schroeder with AFB. Then this is exactly, I
20
think, where, I would say, the Consumer Advisory
21
Committee could step in and suggest that, in
22
fact, in this section we clarify that, since

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there has been such a challenge facing
2
broadcasters in terms of how to allocate
3
portions of Spectrum for description channel,
4
for example, compared to the Spectrum allocated
5
for Spanish, as a second audio channel.
6
That perhaps we add that language
7
in here to express that this is an opportunity
8
for the Commission to make clear that that is
9
a direction that would be helpful to see
10
broadcasters go with this public Spectrum.
11
MR. UMANSKY: Any other comments?
12
CHAIR BERLYN: Julie?
13
MS. KEARNEY: This is getting
14
interesting. I think just given the discussion
15
we are having here, and a lot of us including
16
Ann and Scott and Luisa and Mary, we are all
17
pretty familiar with the legislation.
18
There are a lot of consumer benefit
19
that aren't just limited to this. There was
20
First Responder language. There was -- you
21
know, there are different elements.
22
And I think I would be more

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comfortable taking the Act in its, you know,
2
sort of entirety and focusing on the different
3
consumer benefits, rather than just this
4
specific benefit or directing the Commission
5
to -- in their implementation, that they look
6
to benefits for consumers like broadcasting,
7
like advanced communication services, like
8
First Responders, you know, that we take a higher
9
level approach.
10
I'm just SCEA. I'm not comfortable
11
with a specific, you know, direction that this
12
is going in. So I would rather have a high level
13
approach, take some more time to look at the
14
Act and look at the benefits, the full benefits
15
for consumers.
16
CHAIR BERLYN: Scott, do you have
17
your card -- did you have your card up a second
18
time?
19
MR. BERGMANN: I see that now.
20
CHAIR BERLYN: You did or -- okay.
21
MR. BERGMANN: Scott Bergmann,
22
CTIA. I'll get it eventually. I think there

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is a lot of merit to what Julie suggests. And
2
this is one of the challenges about trying to
3
opine about a piece of legislation that affects
4
a variety of different piece parts.
5
Right? It reflects our national
6
goals in terms of over-the-air broadcasting,
7
in terms of mobile broadband, in terms of public
8
safety and having the chance to have the whole
9
Committee work on its interpretation probably
10
would be beneficial, right, to address
11
accessibility issues that Paul has raised as
12
well, too.
13
So I would certainly be more
14
comfortable with that approach as well, too.
15
CHAIR BERLYN: Lise and Mitsi.
16
MS. HAMLIN: Lise Hamlin here. Let
17
me just say that while some people here actually
18
are real familiar with this, I am not. I don't
19
know if I'm the only one here who is not real
20
familiar with this statute.
21
And, for me, I'm finding that I'm
22
not -- I'm listening to the back and forth, but

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I don't have enough background. So I'm
2
wondering, and I see other suggestions, if the
3
Committee would consider giving us more
4
background and more information between now and
5
maybe the next meeting or if you want to vote
6
in the interim. I don't know if there is a need
7
for a big rush for this to come out.
8
But I would feel personally more
9
comfortable if I had more information to work
10
with.
11
MR. UMANSKY: Yes. I don't believe
12
--
13
MS. HAMLIN: Would you raise your
14
hand, because I can't hear you?
15
MR. UMANSKY: Yes.
16
MS. HAMLIN: Every time you go off
17
mike.
18
MR. UMANSKY: Yes, if I can just--
19
CHAIR BERLYN: And get close to the
20
mike there, Barry.
21
MR. UMANSKY: -- respond here. Hi.
22
I'm not sure what the number of arrows we have

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on our quiver in terms of dealing with this
2
procedurally, but I would be amenable to a small
3
task group be set up to put together another
4
draft, one that could be distributed
5
electronically to the Members of this plenary
6
Advisory Committee. And if we can vote in the
7
interim, that's fine.
8
If not, this may have to wait until
9
the fall. But I see that there are a number
10
of people with some good ideas. And I think
11
that to that extent, we would have something
12
that would be -- reflect those sentiments to
13
the extent that they have support, that's fine.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: Scott?
15
MR. MARSHALL: I was just going to
16
point out --
17
CHAIR BERLYN: I'm sorry. Mitsi
18
had her card up before you. So can we get her
19
comment and then your's?
20
MR. MARSHALL: Sure.
21
MS. HERRERA: Mitsuko Herrera,
22
Montgomery County. I don't disagree with what

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Julie and Lise have said. I am sensitive to
2
the fact that I think it is significantly
3
expanding the scope of work. If the resolution
4
wants to be tailored just to address the impact
5
on over-the-air television, people who receive
6
television over-the-air, in the Act, does it
7
spell out any type of other things that the FCC
8
should be doing?
9
In my community, we have had lots
10
of complaints from people that when they had
11
digital television, they lose certain channels.
12
They have had certain issues related to their
13
ability to continue to receive those signals.
14
And so what I'm wondering is rather
15
than just saying that you want to minimize the
16
impact, should you actually be before you start
17
getting rid of more Spectrum, try to address
18
those issues related to the transition to ensure
19
that people who are relying on over-the-air
20
reception actually get good reception and that
21
the reception extends to the distances that it
22
needs to.

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MR. UMANSKY: Right. Part of the
2
Act and part of the provisions of FCC proceedings
3
deal with replicating service areas, deal with
4
ensuring that people that can receive
5
television, in particular, choices on the dial,
6
continue to receive those choices. That's one
7
of the challenges of repacking the Spectrum.
8
So, yes, you will find that those
9
issues are clearly in the statute and in the--
10
it will be part of the FCC's Rulemaking
11
Proceedings.
12
MS. HERRERA: So, I mean, if what
13
we are looking at doing is advocating on behalf
14
of consumers, so in this area, there are lots
15
of people who sort of sit in this no man's land
16
between Baltimore and Washington, D.C. And
17
they sort of complain about, you know, which
18
channels they got or which ones they didn't.
19
And I get the calls, so that's why
20
I'm mentioning it. But if what we are talking
21
about is that we want to promote and make sure
22
that the FCC looks after the consumer interest

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of those people who receive over-the-air
2
signals, then I would just feel that having that
3
spelled out a little bit more in the resolution
4
would be more helpful to the FCC.
5
MR. UMANSKY: Again, the statute
6
went beyond just talking about those people that
7
receive it over-the-air. We are talking about
8
a communication service and its ability to
9
provide that service continually to the public.
10
One can look to the litany of FCC
11
proceedings dealing with cable carrying and
12
nonduplication, the whole relationship of
13
over-the-air broadcasting other media.
14
And looking at the context now of
15
the Spectrum reallocation, there are larger
16
communications policy issues than just simply
17
people being able to view it over-the-air.
18
I think, again, I would be amenable
19
to having a small task group look at this one
20
more time. The hour is late.
21
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, we --
22
MR. UMANSKY: And perhaps if that's

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1
one of our choices, Madam Chairperson, we would
2
appoint that group.
3
CHAIR BERLYN: Do we need a motion
4
for that, Scott?
5
MR. BERGMANN: Sure.
6
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. So could we
7
have a motion on the floor to do that? And,
8
Scott, do you need to do anything? Do you have
9
a --
10
MR. BERGMANN: I would still point
11
out to folks who may not track the issue --
12
CHAIR BERLYN: Raise your hand.
13
MR. BERGMANN: Scott Bergmann,
14
again, with CTIA. I was going to point out for
15
folks who don't track --
16
CHAIR BERLYN: I don't think you are
17
on mike.
18
MR. BERGMANN: -- these issues,
19
that the FCC has not yet released its NPRM on
20
implementing the statute yet. So there is time.
21
The FCC has targeted the fall for at least an
22
NPRM, so --

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CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.
2
MR. BERGMANN: -- in contrast to
3
some of the other issues where we are weighing
4
in after the record is closed, here the FCC is
5
still in the process of putting together these
6
Notices of Proposed Rulemaking.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay.
8
MR. BERGMANN: So there is the
9
advantage of having some time.
10
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So a
11
recommendation from the floor?
12
MS. LEECH: We've got a motion that
13
is alive?
14
MR. UMANSKY: Yes.
15
MS. LEECH: Do we adjust that --
16
MS. HAMLIN: Can't hear you, Irene.
17
PARTICIPANT: I can't hear her.
18
CHAIR BERLYN: Oh, yes, we have --
19
there is a recommendation to approve the --
20
MR. MARSHALL: I think a motion to
21
refer back will take precedent, would it not,
22
on a motion that has been made and seconded?

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MR. UMANSKY: Right.
2
MR. MARSHALL: And what -- I think
3
you are not only referring it back to the Media
4
Subcommittee, but you want some additional
5
volunteers to look at it.
6
CHAIR BERLYN: Which is no --
7
MR. MARSHALL: Which is no problem.
8
CHAIR BERLYN: We can always have
9
that for the working group.
10
MR. MARSHALL: Yes, yes.
11
MR. UMANSKY: So I think a
12
motion --
13
CHAIR BERLYN: So we have a motion
14
to --
15
MR. UMANSKY: To refer back --
16
CHAIR BERLYN: -- refer it --
17
MR. UMANSKY: -- for further work.
18
CHAIR BERLYN: -- for further work.
19
MR. UMANSKY: Should do it.
20
CHAIR BERLYN: Some -- okay. Ann
21
made that motion.
22
MR. UMANSKY: I think I'm correct

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1
on that.
2
CHAIR BERLYN: Second. Okay.
3
Voting on referring it back to the working group
4
--
5
MR.
UMANSKY:

Right.

No
6
discussion.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: --
for further
8
consideration.
9
MS. HERRERA: Can we refer it back?
10
I mean, because it got raised about -- Mitsi
11
Herrera. Because it got raised about the NPRM.
12
Could the working group look at making
13
recommendations to the FCC of issues to include
14
in the NPRM to get comments on?
15
MR. UMANSKY: It's my understanding
16
these recommendations do actually wind up in
17
relevant docketed proceedings, do they not?
18
MR. MARSHALL: Yes.
19
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, absolutely.
20
MR. UMANSKY: Yes, I think that's
21
already part of the process.
22
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. All right.

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MR. MARSHALL: Part of the
2
relevance.
3
CHAIR BERLYN: Let's move forward.
4
This Committee can do whatever it --
5
MR. MARSHALL: Yes, that's already
6
part of the process.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. So all those
8
in favor, say aye.
9
ALL: Aye.
10
CHAIR
BERLYN:

Opposed?
11
Abstaining? Anyone abstaining? Nope, okay.
12
No nos, no abstaining. Thank you very much,
13
Barry --
14
MR. UMANSKY: All right.
15
MR. MARSHALL: Well done.
16
CHAIR BERLYN: -- for all your hard
17
work there.
18
MR. UMANSKY: All right.
19
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Next up,
20
Consumer Group, are you ready? Ed?
21
MR. BARTHOLME: This is Ed
22
Bartholme with Call for Action. I actually

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wanted to get some clarification on something
2
that was just brought up during that group, as
3
it might pertain to our group.
4
There was a question raised about
5
whether or not it would be possible if there
6
was further discussion on something to have a
7
vote on something in between this meeting and
8
the next meeting.
9
CHAIR BERLYN: It is possible. We
10
could call a special meeting by conference call,
11
so we have our next meeting in October, but we
12
could call a conference call if we have issues
13
to be considered before then. So absolutely.
14
MR. BARTHOLME: Okay.
15
MR. MARSHALL: This is Scott. All
16
the notice requirements in the Federal Register
17
would still apply though and we would have to
18
have an open meeting here at the headquarters
19
and hopefully local people would attend. Then
20
out of towners would call in on the conference
21
line, that's the way it would have to work.
22
MR. BARTHOLME: Okay.

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MR. MARSHALL: Okay.
2
MR. BARTHOLME: Seeing as how that
3
is a possibility for another group --
4
MR. MARSHALL: Yes.
5
MR. BARTHOLME: -- I think I would
6
like to jump on the bandwagon, so to speak.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: All right.
8
MR. BARTHOLME: Maybe I'm trying to
9
drive attendance for the special meeting by
10
having more than one topic to discuss.
11
No, we had put together a
12
recommendation that was in everybody's packet
13
today concerning interruption of wireless
14
services. There were some last minute
15
suggestions for adjustment. And, you know,
16
while everybody seems to be coming at it from
17
the same approach, I think that there is some
18
haggling on some finer points just to get
19
everybody exactly on the same page.
20
So I think we would like to take
21
advantage of a little bit more time on this,
22
especially given the fact that Art Neill from

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UCAN, who was the primary driving force behind
2
this, couldn't actually be here today. So
3
without his input, you know, I want to make sure
4
that we are staying true to his original intent
5
behind this recommendation.
6
So I would like to table what was
7
in your packet today, look forward to an updated
8
draft coming out and hopefully we can move on
9
that at an interim meeting.
10
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. That's fine,
11
Ed. And so that will definitely drive us to
12
a special interim meeting.
13
MR. BARTHOLME: Okay.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: We now have two
15
recommendations to look forward to for that
16
meeting. So we will try and plan that as soon
17
as possible and you and Barry will give us a
18
heads up.
19
MR. BARTHOLME: Yes.
20
CHAIR BERLYN: We also have another
21
issue which I'll be discussing shortly after
22
all of our reports.

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So and you have nothing else?
2
MR. BARTHOLME: No, that's all for
3
today.
4
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Thank you,
5
Ed.
6
MR. BARTHOLME: Thank you.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: Mark and Chris,
8
Broadband Working Group? You're going to give
9
us a third issue?
10
MR. DeFALCO: Hi, Mark DeFalco.
11
There is danger in going after these first two
12
groups or these last two groups here, I think,
13
so, no. We have a recommendation to -- I don't
14
know. Does what we gave you, Scott, need to
15
be read in or not?
16
MR. MARSHALL: Well, somebody has
17
-- everyone has it in their packet, so it was
18
distributed in advance.
19
CHAIR BERLYN: Everyone has it.
20
Paul has it.
21
MR.
MARSHALL: Unless somebody
22
really has a burning desire --

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MR. DeFALCO: Okay. It's the
2
document that is listed "Broadband."
3
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. Just read the
4
headline there.
5
MR. DeFALCO: Yes, "Broadband -
6
GPI06-15-12." This has been circulated and I
7
don't think there is any controversy. So this
8
should be a real easy one to hopefully get
9
through.
10
And then just by way of a report on
11
what we discussed at our breakout session, we
12
believe we will have another recommendation for
13
you for the October meeting. Again, I don't
14
think it will be a controversial recommendation,
15
but we will have another recommendation coming
16
for the next meeting.
17
So with that, I think you are ready
18
to maybe vote this one in?
19
MR. MARSHALL: We have to move the
20
recommendation and second it.
21
MR. SCHROEDER: I would move
22
adoption of --

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MR. MARSHALL: Before we --
2
MR. SCHROEDER: -- the GPII motion.
3
CHAIR BERLYN: Thank you, Paul.
4
MR. DeFALCO: Paul moved.
5
CHAIR BERLYN: Anyone second?
6
MR. UMANSKY: Second.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: We have a second.
8
MR. DeFALCO: Who seconded it?
9
MR. SCHROEDER: And I may want to
10
make one comment on it as well.
11
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay, Paul.
12
MR. DeFALCO: Who seconded it,
13
first, please?
14
CHAIR BERLYN: Barry seconded.
15
MR. DeFALCO: Barry, okay, good.
16
All right. Discussion?
17
MR.
SCHROEDER:

Yes,
Paul
18
Schroeder.
19
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, Paul.
20
MR.
SCHROEDER:

American
21
Foundation for the Blind. I think the GPII is
22
terrific. I do want to suggest adding a

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sentence at the end that would go something like
2
this.
3
The GPII, though it may foster
4
access, does not, and I was debating between
5
mitigate or effect, the need for implementation
6
of accessibility policies.
7
The reason I raise that is GPII is
8
often talked about in these glowing almost
9
religious terms and I think it is great. I mean,
10
I don't want to minimize it, but I also don't
11
want people to get carried away to believe that
12
this is the solution that ends all need for the
13
hard work that has been done on accessibility
14
policies, because it doesn't.
15
It may work. It should compliment
16
and hopefully foster those, as I said. So I
17
would propose the addition of that sentence,
18
just to make clear that that's our view.
19
CHAIR BERLYN: And can you read it
20
again a little more slowly?
21
MR. SCHROEDER: The GPII, though it
22
may foster access, does not mitigate the need

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for implementation of accessibility policies.
2
CHAIR BERLYN: Does not mitigate
3
the --
4
MR. MARSHALL: Need to implement.
5
MR. SCHROEDER: The need to
6
implement, would be fine,
accessibility
7
policies.
8
MR. MARSHALL: Accessibility
9
policies. Okay. Got it.
10
MR. SCHROEDER: I guess I would move
11
that as --
12
MR. MARSHALL: Move the amendment.
13
MR. SCHROEDER: I don't know if I
14
can move that as a friendly-amendment, since
15
I made the motion. I suppose I can.
16
CHAIR BERLYN: Chris and Mark, do
17
you accept that as a friendly-amendment?
18
MR. BAKER: Yes.
19
MR. SCHROEDER: Okay. If they do.
20
CHAIR BERLYN: It's accepted as a
21
friendly-amendment. Sounds good.
22
MR. SCHROEDER: All right. Then we

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can -- any other discussion?
2
CHAIR BERLYN: May foster, okay.
3
Further discussion? Mitsi?
4
MS. HERRERA: Can I offer a
5
friendly-amendment to the Paul? Could you move
6
that sentence to the second -- to become the
7
second sentence and then add the word, something
8
like nonetheless or nevertheless to start the
9
third sentence?
10
MR. SCHROEDER: Yes, I would have
11
no problem with that. Thank you. Good
12
suggestion.
13
CHAIR BERLYN: Chris? Chris?
14
MR. BAKER: Can you hear me?
15
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. Now, I can.
16
MR. BAKER: Now you can. I don't
17
know. I mean, I think it's you need an
18
explanation of what it is before you start saying
19
what it does not do. That would be my only --
20
I mean, I'm fine with the change. I just wonder
21
if it makes more sense, it's more readable if
22
you talk about what it does than what it doesn't

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do?
2
MS. HERRERA: I mean, can we make
3
it, however, the GPII does not, whatever you
4
had, mitigate the need for? It just seems odd
5
it says though it may foster access in the middle
6
of it. But it's 3:50 and it's not bad, so if
7
people are fine with it, I'm happy to withdraw
8
my friendly --
9
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes, I think it works
10
either way. The way I'm looking at it, I don't
11
think it really -- it doesn't strike me as
12
difficult, because it's so short.
13
MR. BAKER: Right, right.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: So I think you get
15
the point either way, the way I look at it.
16
MS. HERRERA: Then to simplify
17
things, I'll just withdraw my --
18
CHAIR BERLYN: Your friendly --
19
MR. MARSHALL: Okay. That works.
20
MS. HERRERA: I'll withdraw it.
21
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. All right.
22
So we have a friendly-amendment that has been

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accepted. We have a motion and a second.
2
Further discussion?
3
Seeing none -- oh, Chris?
4
MR. BAKER: I just wanted to thank
5
Clayton Lewis who sort of came up and brought
6
this idea to our attention for doing it. And
7
I didn't know he would be getting off the
8
Committee, but I want to thank him.
9
CHAIR BERLYN: Excellent. Yes.
10
PARTICIPANT: It would be a great
11
good-bye gift to Clayton.
12
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes.
13
PARTICIPANT: A very appropriate
14
one.
15
CHAIR BERLYN: The Clayton Lewis
16
recommendation. Okay. Thank you, Broadband
17
Working Group. Oh, call the question.
18
All those in favor of this
19
recommendation say aye.
20
ALL: Aye.
21
CHAIR
BERLYN:

Opposed?
22
Abstaining? Excellent.

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MR. MARSHALL: No abstentions?
2
CHAIR BERLYN: No abstentions.
3
This is a no abstentions day.
4
Okay. Universal Service Group?
5
MS. GARCIA: We really have nothing
6
to report.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: Nothing to report.
8
No recommendations this time. Thank you,
9
Cecilia.
10
Okay. That is it for our working
11
group reports.
12
Now, we have another important item
13
that came out of our morning, this morning.
14
Sorry, Rick, I know it's challenging to see each
15
other there.
16
We have another item from our
17
morning from our report for -- about the Consumer
18
Complaints process. As you heard this morning,
19
they are working on a reform of the Consumer
20
Complaints process and they are looking to the
21
Consumer Advisory Committee for some help and
22
they laid out a couple of areas where they would

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like some feedback.
2
So what we would like to do is to
3
setup a Task Force that would help with this
4
process over the next two months to give the
5
FCC some feedback. And hopefully it wouldn't
6
require too many meetings, because we don't want
7
to add to the meetings that are going to be
8
required for this.
9
But the way I see it, we probably
10
need a meeting at the beginning to sort of
11
organize ourselves, find out what exactly we
12
were going to look at and do. And then a meeting
13
after we take a look at what the FCC wants us
14
to do to get together and discuss it and provide
15
some feedback.
16
We also may, as a result of this,
17
want to write up a recommendation to the FCC
18
based on our findings.
19
And the perfect timing for that
20
would be our special meeting, so we would have
21
time. Perhaps the time would work out to do
22
that.

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So what we want to do is to setup
2
a Task Force. And one of the things that this
3
Task Force would do is to test this new -- test
4
the FCC's Consumer Complaint system. So we
5
would test it each individually, do that on our
6
own and provide feedback and perhaps they would
7
develop some sort of response form that we would
8
be able to use to give feedback on it and also
9
come up with some other ideas and feedback for
10
them.
11
So there is a couple of different
12
things that we would do for them and, generally,
13
help them get on the right path with this
14
Consumer Complaint Reform.
15
So what I would like to do with the
16
Task Force is have people volunteer, who are
17
willing to do this. I think it's a really good
18
opportunity for the CAC to provide direct input
19
into this process, but I want to do it just on
20
a volunteer process.
21
I don't think it will be all that
22
time-consuming. As I mentioned, two meetings.

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I don't know whether they will be maybe
2
in-person and on the phone. We will see how
3
that works. Two meetings, possibly three, but
4
hopefully no more than two. And then the time
5
that it would take you just to really try out
6
the Consumer Complaint process.
7
So Scott and I will send something
8
around in the next week or so asking for
9
volunteers to serve on this Task Force. And
10
we will try not to make it too huge, but, you
11
know, a good group who are willing to roll up
12
their sleeves and do this with us.
13
So I hope that you will participate.
14
Okay. Did I miss anything?
15
MR. MARSHALL: Comments from the
16
public?
17
CHAIR BERLYN: Yes. Now, we have
18
comments from the public. Did I miss anything
19
on the complaint?
20
MR. MARSHALL: No, no, I think you
21
got it.
22
CHAIR BERLYN: Okay. Very good.

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Finally, are there any members -- anyone from
2
the public who have any comments for the CAC?
3
I didn't get any emails, I don't think, Scott.
4
MR. MARSHALL: Okay. Then a motion
5
to adjourn.
6
CHAIR BERLYN: So again, we are
7
going to meet in October. We will get the exact
8
date out to you as soon as we confirm
9
availability of this meeting room and make sure
10
that we don't have any conflicts with dates.
11
And I think that's it. Any further
12
comments from anyone around the room?
13
MR. MARSHALL: Debbie, did you
14
raise any dates with the group at all?
15
CHAIR BERLYN: I didn't. Do you
16
want me -- did you check the availability for
17
that one date?
18
MR. MARSHALL: Well, let's -- could
19
we run by October 19th?
20
CHAIR BERLYN: Sure. One date that
21
we are --
22
MR. MARSHALL: And get a quick

NEAL R. GROSS

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
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320
1
reaction.
2
CHAIR BERLYN: One day we are
3
looking at is October 19th, which is a Friday.
4
Okay. It doesn't --
5
MR. MARSHALL: Nobody is running
6
out the door screaming.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: Nobody is screaming.
8
MS. KEARNEY: It doesn't work for
9
me.
10
CHAIR BERLYN: People are checking.
11
It doesn't work for Julie.
12
MS. LEECH: That would be tight for
13
me.
14
CHAIR BERLYN: It would be tight for
15
Irene. It's not good for Lise. Okay. We have
16
two. It's not good for you, Ed? Not good for
17
Ed, oh. All right. Now we've got--
18
MR. MARSHALL: Three.
19
CHAIR BERLYN: -- three.
20
MR. MARSHALL: Okay.
21
CHAIR BERLYN: What happened with
22
the 26th?

NEAL R. GROSS

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433
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www.nealrgross.com

321
1
MR. MARSHALL: It's not available.
2
This room is not available.
3
CHAIR BERLYN: The room is not
4
available on the 26th. Well, we will get back
5
to you.
6
MR. MARSHALL: Right.
7
CHAIR BERLYN: It may have to stick
8
with the 19th, but I'll get back to you to see
9
if the date changes. But it will be -- we are
10
hoping to stick with the month of October, so
11
that it is not too far from now. But also look
12
for that special date between now and October
13
for our special meeting.
14
So do I have a motion to adjourn?
15
Oh, I don't know, I got a couple of hands on
16
that. Motion to adjourn. Do I hear a second?
17
PARTICIPANT: Second.
18
CHAIR BERLYN: And all those in
19
favor?
20
ALL: Aye.
21
CHAIR BERLYN: All right.
22
MR. MARSHALL: Thanks, everybody.

NEAL R. GROSS

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433
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www.nealrgross.com

322
1
CHAIR BERLYN: Thanks, everyone.
2
(Whereupon,
the
meeting
was
3
concluded at 3:59 p.m.)
4
5
6
7
8
9
10

NEAL R. GROSS

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
www.nealrgross.com

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